Teachers - No bloody flexibility!! What other job can I do?

[ziopin]

Hi, Sorry to rant! I'm a teacher, and I know that people think we get an easy ride, but it's bloody hard work!

There is no flexibility in this job. Okay, okay we do get the holidays, but we cant have any flexibility about what time we arrive/leave school.

I'm a working Mum - my dd starts school full time come September - I'd love to be able to take her to school or pick her up every now and again.

Am thinking about packing it in, but what other job can I do?

52 weeks in the yr = 260 'working days'
190 teaching days, plus 5 INSET.
Leaves 65 days = 13 weeks' holiday.

So what has happened to the OP?

6 wks summer hol, 2 wks each Christmas and Easter, plus 3x 1wk at half term.

Sorry, what's not to understand?

We get 12.........

I think we only have 5 weeks at summer......

Duh!!! Of course 3 1/2 terms. Keep thinking there are only 2

I have just gone back after a years maternity leave, so feel I am allowed to be a bit thick at the moment.........

Most workers get 20 days plus bank holidays in the UK.

There is only a right to request flexible working. In most schools it is perfectly lawful to refuse the request because teaching a class is something you consistently need one teacher there each day. Would any of us really be happy with 2 or 3 different class teachers there each day for our under 7s? You also do need some teachers prepared to stay late for all kinds of things to just as other kinds of workers in many jobs have to be able to work late sometimes.

(As for enjoying school collection that's just a personal thing - some fathers cry because they can't do it every day and others are happy to delegate it to the au pair or even their wife)

'Copurse you do Xenia but there are ways a school could work around it.

Say for example X needed to be able to have monday morning off because her child had speech therapy and the CM couldnt go.

(completely made up example).

X (a primary teacher) is entitled to a set amount of time for prep each week when her calss is covered anyway. So a Head could work around that, allow her to do the prep later in the evening, for example.

Requesting flexible leave IS a right and teachers should be able to utilise it. You say that we wouldn't be happy if our under sevens all had several teachers; no, but would you be happy if all the good teachers ledt as soon as their kids turned 4 because they couldn't get childcare sorted? Seems to me that in order to retain the best teachers, flexibility has to be key!

Xenia - jobsharing does exist in teaching all age groups. You may not have experienced your "under 7 having 2 or 3 teachers" a week but I know teachers who have had just such a contract. Also there are p/t contracts available for such things as covering PPA time.

I am amazed at some one in 2007 being so obedient to DM and PIL who live 150 miles away, that they follow their instructions about childcare. Do you also dress and feed your child according to their preferences too, in your own house?

The difficulty about childcare, IME, is organising things so that you have maximum time to select the sort/person you want before your own job starts. And I certainly didn't consult dh about it, much less his parents or my own.

We've never been on the receiving end of it in the private sector schools I've been connected with and the teachers I have known have all worked full hours. I think in many schools it's regarded as reasonable and lawful to refuse the request because the job can't be done part time. Abnyway if we refuse the requests it will make the fathers/husbands (who usually aren't teachers at primary level) have to take time off which is all to the good. The teacher with their child needing speech therapy during working hours can get someone else to take it or get her husband to. Women don't have to get landed with all tasks relating to children in 2007.

The flexible working debate is a very interesting one - ideal in theory, but in reality there can be downsides to the employer or to clients. Roisin makes a very good point - the profile of the workforce is an important issue. A workforce may be able to be flexible with a small proportion of employees, but what if, say, half the workforce are parents of young children and request flexible working? I teach in a secondary school where this is a very real issue - we have a large number of female teachers who in the last few years have been breeding like, well, rabbits! Many of them request flexible working, and to fit their childcare arrangements, they usually want to work complete days, not just bits and pieces all over the place. It all sounds fine in theory - but the reality is that you end up with loads of split classes. This can quite rightly cause resentment among full timers whose work load is affected. It may not appear on the surface to create a greater workload, but let me give an example. If I'm teaching, say, two Year 9 classes for Science each week, that would be 8 Science lessons. Now, suppose to accommodate a p/t teacher, my head of dept says to me, instead of two year 9 classes, you've got to teach four different classes for two lessons each of science per week. In theory it's still 8 lessons, so the same time allocation, but in practice it would be a hell of a lot more work - planning and assessing for four different teaching groups (ie 120 different children as opposed to 60), liaising with the other teacher,probably even more parents evenings to attend because of the greater number of pupils taught. There are also other issues as people have pointed out - if staff aren't available for daily briefing sessions, then there can be breakdowns in communication. I'm all for people having flexible arrangements if it works, but it mustn't be at the expense of either the employer or other workers.

i've managed to negotiate finishing at lunch time twice a week. that mean i'm on a 87% slaray & timetable, but can pick dd up tiwce a week.
how flexible are your school, will they agree to give you ppa time so you can leave early/arrive late once or twice a week? my sister's school do this (mine won't - i have to cut my pay & hours!)

i DID ask back in Jan though & my contract states that they won't guarantee my non-teaching time will fit in with childcare! so i'm ok for next year (timetable sorted) but may not be in sep 2008

I think it all boils down to the fact that it is just not possible in our society to be a mother and have a full-time career at the same time without one of them having to 'give way' to the other.
It may be controversial or unfashionable to say it, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Being a mother in our society, it seems, is all about choices and compromises. It's different for fathers. That's just the way it is and we have to live with it. There is not, and can never be, true sexual equality while women continue to be the only ones that have babies.

Eh? 80smum how is it possible for men "to be fathers and have full-time careers" in some way that mothers cannot?
Anyway...
Basically we are all in agreement that if you work full time, no matter what you do, it is very unlikely that you will be able to do many drop-offs or pick ups - if any.
Interesting points made here about possible teacher flexibility eg re Christmas plays etc (more important in a way than the daily pick-up).
Roisin has a goo dpoint about the rest of the workforce too.

ziopin you've started a big debate and then left us! What do you think?

If your DD is at a different school to the one in which you teach, could you get someone to pick her up and drop her with you whilst you clear away etc (apart from when you have meetings)?

Xenia, we don't have a sexist marriage, we are equals. DH has actually said that he will give up work to do the school run if necessary. I don't want him to and we are both looking at finding suitable arrangements. As I will be the one doing the school run, then obviously I have to take the lead and ensure that they fit in with my commitments.

My DM and PIL mean well. I guess they are quite old fashioned when it comes to childcare.

Haven't read all the replies, but just wanted to add - I think the thing with teaching is that, although it doesn't have any worse hours than most jobs, people THINK it is very 'child friendly' when infact it isn't. I am always amazed at how many mums of small children decide to take it upon themselves to do a PGCE (punishing in itself!) and then go into teaching. I think a lot of people are under the illusion the hours are short and flexible, when clearly they are NOT.
Teachers (as you well know) aren't able to drop off and pick up their own children...but far more gruelling, to my mind, is the amount of prep and marking they have to do in their free time. Its a very demanding job (you have my saympathies).
I think if you are going to request fexible working hours, make sure you have a watertight proposal that shows the school how it will work in their interests as well your own. Worth a shot. Otherwise, it may be time to think about doing something else to earn your living...

good post loveangel.

From my observation, prep and marking get easier and quicker with experience. I agree that teaching is tougher than many people think but so are lots of jobs.

80smum, completely agree with you

have kids, oldest is 9 and what you say is true

for me the compromise is worth it, but its bloody hard too

I think a lot of mums with small kids are deciding now NOT to do the PGCE, as it sis eomthing we are warned about at Uni- someone like me, who chose the degree specificallyy as an entry to (RE Secondary) teaching will cope as it is an aim I have had for many years and have been building towards; wheras someone (as a great many students ahve in the past apaprently) who sees it as a decent enough job to clear the student loan will struggle badly.

I'm actually listing a flexible PGCE on my application with 3 FT options, mainly because I dpn't know yet if ds3 will be in MS or SN education- it gives me flexibility. I am also fortunate as DH does do a lot- he works full time, but it is nights, so he is up in time for the school run: that way I only have to use nreakfast club (CM for ds3) in the mornings.
And hopefully he'll be self emplyed by then, and in his line of business he could drop over to school when needed as he will set his own hours- it won't matter if he takes an hour out for a school tun, as he will just ahve to work later in the evening.

Cat64, is that thing about ppa time off premises true for secondary as well?

I can't sat it's the career of choice of people graduating with my children. People want to buy houses, pay school fees and pay nannies. You can't easily do that on teachers' wages but you never have.

It's perfectly possbile to work full time as a man and woman and have children and many of us manage it but it really really helps if like me you think the school run is a huge drag you are hugely privileged to avoid and that on some nights you'd actually quite prefer to do whatever your work is for an extra 2 hours than deal with bed time bedlam.