Investigation nhs

[Crazymaisienumber9]

Hi I have to go through a work investigation in relation to workplace bullying. A person I work with has accused myself and a colleague of bullying her. It is in fact she who is the bully. She has been accused of it herself on a number of occasions over the years but unfortunately management have been ineffective in doing anything. She now acts as if she is the victim to camouflage her own behaviour. So, if she is asked a simple question she misrepresents it as an attack/ bullying. There has recently been an incident and she has reported myself and a colleague as bullying her. This is most definitely not the case, but it is going to investigation. Although she has 'previous ' as they say, I want to be well prepared as she is a very intelligent operator. Has anyone experienced an investigation and if so any insights would be helpful ? Please.

Do you have a union rep. Write down your version of events, only discuss it with your line manager and union rep. Don't talk about her with other staff. Ask to see a cooy of her complaint. Keep notes of all future contact with her and would it be better if there was always someone else around when you and she are together. Ask your line manager what sort of investigation this will be and are any of you being moved while the investigation take a place. Don't openly criticise management handling of any past complaints, they are none of your business really.

Thanks HoleyMoley . No movement of any staff. I unfortunately am working with her on my own for the next few weeks. There is going to be some care technicians around on and off staff around . I'm her junior as a band 6 she is a band 7. I generally have as little to do with her as possible when we have a full complement of staff. But because we have to verify what she tells us between ourselves, as she tells different people different things to cause mischief. Hence I think she may have used this to say we are bullying her. I've spoken to my union rep. Been told there will be a meeting to discuss the events of the day. I'm sure this will open a can of worms of historical issues.

Not nursing is it? Maybe suggest taped handovers or get together with her present for a regroup as they say so she can tell everyone the same thing. Do keep notes of any issues with her and keep professional, a band 6 is a senior position, don't feel intimidated.

It is nursing but in the community. We each have our own caseload . She is an awkward customer and very very shrewd. I'm at the stage where I actually dont want to say anything to her as at this stage if I don't have a witness I'm stuffed, she can say anything true or not, if I do have a witness I'm stuffed as she claims it's bullying/harrassment. If i ask any questions either alone or in company it's the same. I usually just try to be out of the office as much as possible so there is little or no interaction. I have emailed my manager to say that I will contact her if there is anything untoward. Not that they've done anything prior to this despite being contacted on a number of occasions over the last 1 to 2 years. She has stated that a couple.of people in the office are witness to her being bullied by my colleague and i . We were in another building . I asked a very simple question on the phone in a VERY measured tone and she exploded and said she had had enough of us 2 and was going to report us. This is a classic tactic of hers. We have seen her do it to others. This is why i am soooo wary if her . She is a poisonous individual. Honestly i believe she is recording conversations and rewriting them to her agenda. But we have no proof. Both my colleague and i have gone to management previously on separate occasions saying we fear for our registration and want it written down as a matter of record.

Hi, there has been a few weeks of nothing about the investigation. I have been on leave from last Thursday and not due to go back to work until next Thursday so I put an out of office on my email. We all dont work at the weekend Yesterday (saturday) I heard my work phone pinging like mad when I went to my mum's house on her WiFi. I don't have WiFi which is why i didnt have this before. So when I glanced at the emails there was one from my manager sent friday at 2 pm inviting myself and 2 other colleagues involved in the bullying and harrassment case to a meeting on Monday first thing. All it states is a meeting with no agenda. I also know that a separate email was sent to our accuser to attend same manager at the same time but in theory I don't 'know' this . I contacted my kindly union rep at the weekend as I thought this was odd. She said to say too short a notice and to ask for terms of reference for the meeting. One of my colleagues wants to go so she can hear what she has accused us of (I'd like to know too) but I smell a rat from management here. Why send this email on a Friday afternoon for a meeting on a Monday first thing with the interested parties with no agenda. To me this has the potential of being very contentious, especially as the accusation is bullying and harrassment, although if I were going I wouldn't say a thing. What could management be up to here ? Thanks in advance.

Keep a calm head OP, stay confident through this process that you didn't bully this woman, if you believe this to be the case. They are going through the process and trying to resolve it quickly.

Do as your Rep recommends - highlight you've been on leave and that you need time to prepare plus you also need your Rep at the meeting so can they please move the meeting back so you can attend to these matters.

It does sound odd. I wonder if this is some attempt at mediation?

God i’m Wondering if she’s the one who bullied my mother and colleagues after they raised concerns about patient safety (also community). She was caught out lying in the investigation - both verbally and in writing - but she was still promoted and is still causing absolute havoc (Mum and colleagues have all left now). She also tried to say my mum and colleagues were bullying her but no-one took that seriously. Not even the ones promoting her way beyond her level of competence.

NHS nursing is toxic. Protect yourself.

Record everything, follow up all conversations in email, keep calm when dealing with her. If you can get witnesses do (although that may be hard if she’s a known bully and colleagues see what you & your colleague are going through).

Make a list of everything she has done and put it in a joint grievance? That’s what my mum as colleagues ended up having to do. Might be worth asking the union rep about that

And yes i’d Smell a rat.

Prepare for the meeting by playing through the episode in your mind, writing notes as you go, bullet points, don't get into the weeds, stay factual

• how did it start, what led to the episode
• who was present, and why
• what triggered reactions, responses, emotion
• how did it conclude

Be objective, think about why would that person have thought you were bullying them, what could have been said that might have led to them feeling that way. Don't include those assumptions in your account, but it prepares you for their side of the story.

Think about some justification that you might offer as to why you needed to say anything you think they may have misconstrued (eg you were highlighting concerns, you were reporting something factually because you judged in good faith that they needed to know etc)

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I did think this might be them trying to sort things via the back door, but the reality is this person is genuinely beyond any kind of acknowledgement of wrongdoing on her part. She and I were to have mediation last year (I wasn't optimistic) but then it was cancelled after her individual meet with the mediators. To this day I dont know why. But I think she played the victim card from work stress as she knew her own dodgy behaviour would come to light. She is dogged in everything she does and can quote policies like no tomorrow. Management probably realise that whichever way the wind blows this has the potential to cause mayhem. My colleagues and I cant work with her if this goes her way. It is bad now it will be worse if nothing happens to her. We talk to each other because she tells different things to different people and it protects us. Our only hope was that her own behaviour would come to light through the investigation. Thanks again.

Management probably realise that whichever way the wind blows this has the potential to cause mayhem.

This was my assumption too. They realise that they have a shitstorm on their hands and they want to try and clean things up off the record. They want everyone to shut up and get on with it to be blunt.

I knew of someone like this and lots of her managers came and went and never tackled her behaviour. It was only when one tough new manager went in that they saw what she was like and started the process to performance manage her from the role.

Another one I knew of left once her boss left as they were thick as thieves but she had pissed off just about everyone else and she knew they'd come down on her like a ton of bricks as soon as he was out the door.

Don’t walk into a meeting called at short notice without an agenda or any representation... whatever they are doing, they don’t have your best interests at heart. They only care about their own interests. If you’re and theirs coincide then that’s great, but don’t assume they’ll do what it legally or ethically right, just because they should! People do what’s best for them, and what’s easiest for them.

ve decided definitely not going to the meeting. I will send an email stating I'm on leave but happy to attend any future meeting with the Terms of Reference. One of my colleagues will definitely go if it proceeds without all not being able to go. I said to have a little speech prepared to get out should she feel it is all getting a bit too sticky and knows to not engage in any verbal exchange as such. So we will see where that leads us. I did find out today though that our accuser tried to recinding a few weeks ago....along the lines that things were better, but none.of us are treating her any differently so it has maybe dawned on her that this investigation includes investigating her behaviour too.

This is an opportunity for us to let it be seen, through her own hand, exactly what it is like 'working' with her on a daily basis. Anyway I'll let you know how things roll out. Thanks to everyone who has given your time and advice.

The plot thickens. My colleague went to the meeting only to be told by our senior manager that she didn't know where the email inviting us to attend had come from and could only apologise ! After her meeting with our accuser she contacted us both individually to say the investigation was going ahead. From her meeting with her she realised this was the only way to try to resolve this, but had initially tried to not go down this route. She did say our accuser wasn't pushing for it, but by how upset she was our manager realised the investigation was the only way forward. So it appears she has already won the sympathy vote. If you only knew this individual you could understand my frustration at this. She is a skilled manipulator who has no qualms tormenting and undermining people and then wonders why she is disliked. There is not a sliver of self reflection about her own behaviour. Our only hope that this process shows her up for the person she is. My colleague brought up historical issues in her meet with our manager who said we can't be bringing up 13 years of problems this will just be about these current issues. My own rep said that was nonsense. This is so relevant

as it is longstanding repetitive behaviour. In a way I'm glad at least we get to find out what we've been accused of and can start to defend ourselves.

The older issues are part of it as it shows a pattern of behaviour.

Let's see what this woman has accused you of and go from there.

Thanks OliviaStabler

I had to work with my accuser on my own for 2 days this week. A couple of things happened. On one occasion she reported an issue regarding a patient of mine via email to myself and our consultant, I feel in the hope it would cause me trouble. This was something that is really standard stuff and would in no way necessitate involving the consultant. I fixed it very quickly and sent a responding email to all concerned saying it was all sorted and all concerned were happy with the outcome. The second issue she offered to go see a patient of my other colleague (my co-accused) as I was busy, I politely declined not offering any explanation why. This is just her opportunity to say how helpful and nice she is. I didn't want her seeing the patient as I know if she found ANYTHING amiss she would make much of it. So I went to see the patient, busy or not. She wasn't happy I declined and was tap tap tapping away writing up her notes on me. A colleague of ours approached me this week bemused by how nice she has been to him recently, it made him uncomfortable, especially as she has had issues with him historically, requiring him to put the bullying and harrassment policy on her desk!

I know this all sounds pathetic, and it is, but this is the level she stoops to and in the circumstances she is putting everything down to build her case. I feel vulnerable around her, its like a ominous threat hanging over your head every day. So I'm thinking of going to management and telling them I fear for my registration and feel vulnerable from possible accusations she may make . If she hasn't got something she will make it up.

If I do this does anyone know what the possible repercussions may be if I do this ? Please

Can you not take out a grievance against her?

It sounds as if you have good reason to and then it will be official.

I suggested putting in a counter claim to hers to my union rep but she said it wouldn't really achieve anything. Depending on your viewpoint this will be the 3rd year in a row where I have had issues with her. In 2016 she completely lost it and shouted at me . Unfortunately I had no witnesses but immediately reported it to my manager. They wanted me to go with a grievance. I didn't as everyone who I spoke to said it never went with the accuser and just ended up affecting your mental health. At that time I knew of another case and that is exactly what happened. Last year there was another incident involving me the detail of which I don't want to go into at the moment. But there was an SEA, which despite a written statement from a witness completely disputing her version of events, there was nothing done. We were supposed to go to mediation after this but it didn't go ahead and I still don't know why. It wasnt until the following week that I was informed that the mediation process had been cancelled. So now we have this situation this year, except this time she is attacking me directly with her accusations. I told my manager last year to document I feared for my registration from this individual. As i said i am not the only person she has had issues with. Anyone who disagrees with her is bullying her and she is dogged in ensuring she is proven right regardless of the consequences. I have no faith in management they have privately admitted to me that she is a 'nightmare' . These managers have worked with her in the past and know the score. They know there have been others but unfortunately I think proper protocol wasn't followed. I know one person from a different discipline who went to management (since retired) about her and was told 'thats just .....' and nothing was done. Management are scared of her and so am i. She is intelligent shrewd wiley underhand and malicious. Everything she does is camouflaged with a thin veil of plausibility. Management won't challenge that as she will accuse them of harrassment or bullying . About 2 years ago she had a row n the phone with a manager. This manager then went to her senior manager who phoned her to tell her she could not speak to her manager like that. She then proceeded having a row with her. They did nothing.

I’m surprised she hasn’t been promoted (not joking, that’s what the NHS did with my mum’s nightmare boss.

I think if you are worried for your registration you should consider a grievance (I agree it can be incredibly stressful - it was for my Mum and colleagues who put in a grievance against their similar sounding boss - I am almost wondering whether it is the same person tbh. Her first name doesn’t begin with an L does it?).

You do need protect yourself so follow up every conversation of any significance with an email so you have sort of attendance notes for evidence.

Can you look for another job? That’s the only thing people working under my mum’s nightmare boss could do. She did the same nitpicking and blaming people for stuff that wasn’t their fault. She was always trying to get people suspended. Management did nothing to control her.

Devilishpyjamas lol not an 'L' but sounds like it was a hell similar to my own. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. I phoned a solicitor, just a freebee call, and he repeated the original advice I was given re grievances from my union rep. He said to just let her get on with it. I am toying suggesting to management working in the hospital for a period of time to get away from her. I know they are short of staff, its my speciality area and it is the same trust so it might be a possibility. Only problem there would be noone coming in to cover me. I would like the experience from a skills and knowledge perspective anyway, but feel I need to let management know how exposed we are around her and even if I went for 6 months i would still have to come back to work with her.

Could a number of you band together and meet with her manager as a sort of intervention?

If there are enough examples of her behaviour from multiple people, maybe that will force their hand?

When my mum & collleagues (4 of them) banded together to raise concerns about patient safety (which sort of involved bully boss) they were treated shockingly. So not necessarily safety in numbers.

I honestly think NHS nurse management - maybe particularly community - is toxic. I can’t believe how similar your story is to my mum’s.

I honestly would look at moving jobs - much as you shouldn’t have to. In my mum’s case this woman tried to destroy her career - didn’t manage it (she was caught out lying in writing), but nothing changed and she has managed to damage others. That was partly why my mum spoke out - she felt she had less to risk than the younger nurses with mortgages, young kids and a whole career ahead of them.

Honestly, protect yourself and look to move. Until then email reports of every conversation back to her cc’ing in management. That way she can’t alter the story later.

If you do move make sure you say why in your exit interview (request/ insist on one if not offered).

A speciality of my mum’s boss was to get people suspended and then they couldn't transfer.

Honestly I think she was a psychopath - yours sounds similar