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Investigation nhs

43 replies

Crazymaisienumber9 · 12/07/2018 08:27

Hi I have to go through a work investigation in relation to workplace bullying. A person I work with has accused myself and a colleague of bullying her. It is in fact she who is the bully. She has been accused of it herself on a number of occasions over the years but unfortunately management have been ineffective in doing anything. She now acts as if she is the victim to camouflage her own behaviour. So, if she is asked a simple question she misrepresents it as an attack/ bullying. There has recently been an incident and she has reported myself and a colleague as bullying her. This is most definitely not the case, but it is going to investigation. Although she has 'previous ' as they say, I want to be well prepared as she is a very intelligent operator. Has anyone experienced an investigation and if so any insights would be helpful ? Please.

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Crazymaisienumber9 · 04/08/2018 20:16

Thanks to you both.
Olivia unfortunately the current accusation has a witch hunt element in it as she has accused my colleague and i. So I'm not sure if that would add to the suspicion no matter how many were involved.

I'm coming round to the thought I don't be able to stay the longer this goes on. I really like my job
and patients. As much as anyone can enjoy the busy demanding stressful nhs, I do like my job and it suits me in many ways but it looks like she has me beat and I'll go before I'm forced out in another way.

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Devilishpyjamas · 04/08/2018 20:52

It’s very sad. Can you move teams? My mum was able to stay in the community but move teams. Her colleagues did as well. It meant they were split up (which they hated) and the GP’s were not happy as they liked their nurses - but it was a lot less stressful.

Crazymaisienumber9 · 04/08/2018 21:49

I can't move within the team as there is only one and although we are split at present in venues management are making moves to put us all together so if she or i get moved, we will end up together eventually anyway. It is sad from the perspective that I love community but it isn't worth losing my registration over, or getting black marks on my record to make moving elsewhere more difficult, as your mum's nemesis achieved. I think management might just slap a warning on all of us as a way of trying to control the possible fallout from this, but that doesn't help anyone, it just perpetuates the problem, and increases the threat to my colleague and i if she re-establishes her efforts once more. Over the last 2 years my colleague became her manager, usurping her from this position and even though I haven't been her direct target she despises us both because in our individual ways we have 'hurt' her, as she sees it, but like the true narcissist that she is, if you nip her she will come back to slit your carotid.

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Devilishpyjamas · 04/08/2018 23:40

I think your thoughts on the matter are (unfortunately) correct.

The NHS really needs to sort out nurse management

daisychain01 · 05/08/2018 06:03

I have no faith in management they have privately admitted to me that she is a 'nightmare

From everything you've said, this is a toxic broken situation that isn't going to change no matter what you do. Think about your career. Also think that, the longer this crock of shit endlessly churns around day after day, week after week, it is sapping your energy and focus from the vulnerable people you are there to serve, your patients.

Don't resign yet, but bide your time and actively seek a new post elsewhere before she affects your career. Keep your head down and ignoring all the noise. Don't feed her toxic fire or give her oxygen. Think "what is the worst that can happen". Management are not going to sack you or your colleague, they won't want a Tribunal case on their hands. They also know that you are unionised, so they will do only just enough to keep her antics at bay, pander to her whims, and mark time to appease her with endless mind-numbing investigations, meetings and emails.

The minute you can leave, do so. This is one situation where I would definitely recommend you request an exit interview and prepare comments about your key contentions as to why you're going, what management did not do to effectively handle this situation and how you feel let down not only for yourself, but for your colleagues and your patients.

Crazymaisienumber9 · 05/08/2018 06:35

Thanks Devilish and Daisy. My union rep and my colleagues union rep have both said, in their own way, that our biggest problem is weak management. I am very guarded around her and say as little to her as I possibly can, unfortunately by doing this i think she is saying that I am isolating her ( bullying in other words) so dammed if I do , damned if I don't. Even though I say little to her as in the incidents I quoted earlier i don't really have to speak for her to make mischief. It's a lose lose.
So Daisy I think you're right but the side move for now may get it out of the direct firing line if they allow it. Unfortunately where i live the choices are a bit limited for good jobs in my speciality, but it might just be the way things have to be.

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PitchBlackNight · 05/08/2018 08:47

What an awful situation -

Crazymaisienumber9 · 18/08/2018 05:14

Hello to whomever is interested in this saga. Just an update, sorry it's a bit of a long one. First of all thanks to everyone who has commented and offered support its been a great help.
After a number of weeks under the impression I am one of the accused, last week I was told I was being called as a witness only. I dont know why this is the case. On the day of the incident our accuser was very clearly reporting us both to management . Despite this, I just continued my efforts in the same way to prepare. Our interviews were yesterday. It was quite clear management had their agenda and were sticking to it. At one point they questioned our issue with her behaviour. In isolation it could be perceived as just noise with not alot of substance, but in the broader scheme of things with ALL of the other incidences, it was so relevant. One of the interviewers was the good cop, the other, bad cop. There was a bit of leaping about with questions. Im frustrated now
that i couldnt, on occasion, get my point across better and have been more insistent about being heard. I did though go through the historical set up, which was relevant to current day practices and behaviours. They just seemed at times to not want to hear a lot of it , honing in on what they wanted to hear and ignoring others. I was able, with the support of my union rep to get in about a serious event from last year that my accuser really tried to compromise me on. One of the interviewers was more obvious in her bemusement about this. At one point they did say, which I just felt was their way of putting it out there early on, that this was just a case of a disgruntled employee (our accuser)who had been usurped from her managerial role by my colleague, the now sole accused, saying ' oh we see, oh that's why, !!!! ...It's becoming more clear what's happened here ' If I could have, I would have been quite clear in telling them that I'm not that stupid and that this was their ploy to make it a simple matter, when it is in fact a lot more serious. POPPYCOCK !! Anyway I phoned my colleague afterwards and told her how frustrating the style of interviewing was, and how disjointed it was which made it difficult to get your point across. So she just went in and made sure they listened !!! Told them about our accusers games, lies, deceit, tactics and how we both feared for our registration. They were shocked and horrified.

Our accuser had named a colleague from another discipline as a witness. She didn't even have the decency to ask or tell him she was calling him as a witness. She thought she could butter him up, despite historically giving him the same treatment as she has given us. She was expecting him to go in and say how he had heard her say she was going to management about us, because of how we were, apparently, speaking to her. (I could have been reading the phone book. She would have said the same thing in the same manner) This man is the most straight up decent individual you could ever meet. But he is no pushover, so he gave an honest account of how he heard her being very irate on the phone to us. If she knew she would be horrified, but from this it just reiterates to me how completely blind she is to her own behaviour. It is all about everyone else. Interestingly she didn't include the other person in the room at the time as a witness...Another person she has more recently bullied, a very mild mannered, and accommodating clerical person, who ended up withdrawing her help to our team because of how she was treated by her. As a word of warning to all out there who may have to go through something like this, our manager, who has had all of these antics reported to her on an ongoing basis, and had told us from the outset that she 'couldnt speak to us as she was part of the investigation', wasnt even going to be interviewed !!!! That is, until my colleague realised this during her interview, and so made sure she was going to be interviewed. My colleague at the outset of all this would have believed our manager was supportive, I was always the more sceptical, that is not the case now. Our manager used to say to her every time she had to report this persons antics, 'you're doing a great job, we are right behind you, if you need anything just let us know.' So there will now be more interviews as a result of my colleagues statements. There appeared to be only a witness called to support our accusers issues, despite my colleague putting in her own statement at the outset with her version of events and other issues. If this process is open to question, should this carry on, it appears very one-sided to me. I came home and copied down what I could remember about my interview, just in case. Glad it's over though, for now. Crashed and burned last night. Thanks again for all the input. Any further developments I'll keep you posted.

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daisychain01 · 18/08/2018 07:49

It's not your fault at all, but it does take up a huge amount of headspace and mental energy, these kind of toxic work situations. Been there, done that! Not trying to minimise what you've gone through at all, but as you are no longer the accused, is it something you can now put "in a box" so you can compartmentalise as it is very harmful to your health.

You will unfortunately never control the toxic manager, but you can control your response to her. Sorry, very CBT but that's often the only way to survive!

OliviaStabler · 18/08/2018 07:55

The positive thing for you is that whatever happens, they have been told all the issues now. They can never plead ignorance again.

I assume you had a notetaker in the meeting?

Crazymaisienumber9 · 18/08/2018 08:22

Yes there was a note taker Olivia and youre right they can't plead ignorance any longer. Which can only be a good thing.

Unfortunately Daisy it can't be put aside as such, believe me I would love to. So long as I work with this person I will always be en garde. I know this person too well. She might back off from my colleague for a while but this just creates a vacancy. Back to me? Someone else ? It's anyone's guess. Unless of course they do something effective this time, which I doubt. She is a very dangerous and malicious person and I've seen her sink lower and lower. We will have to wait and see. Meantime I'm going to try and switch off from it over the weekend but my headache this morning will be first on my to do list. Thanks .

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OliviaStabler · 18/08/2018 08:57

You sound frustrated with yourself that you did not get your point across but you did a smart thing and forewarned your colleague. You gave her the info she needed to hit a home run around their plot to shut this down and minimise the issue. There is no way now they can ever say they don't know the extent of this woman's toxicity, it's in writing.

Crazymaisienumber9 · 18/08/2018 09:46

Thanks Olivia, I am irritated with myself. Should have pushed harder with my own agenda. The bad cop didn't make eye contact or take notes when I was explaining a few things, which were all relevant, but this was quite disconcerting. But for me, it isn't until you set the scene in some instances that you realise the impact of the persons actions, or the crafty manoeuverings of her games. At least as a duo we got our point across. My colleague was very nervous but did very well on the day . Hopefully now it means something, if not at this point maybe on another. My colleague was on leave all this week so this ruined it for her. I spent 3 days of my own leave a few weeks ago and more evenings than I care to remember going over stuff, writing up accounts of things. I do think our accuser had one eye to this when she acted when she did . Hopefully it will be worth it in the long run. 🤞

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Arkengarthdale · 18/08/2018 10:13

Wanted to wish you well. I went through absolute shit as an NHS administrator who was bullied and raised a grievance. Management were so bad, the lies they told were shocking. It cost me my mental health and I still suffer from some PTSD now.

Document absolutely everything, confirm conversations in writing by email every single time - and look for another job. It will never be sorted if your managers can't manage.

Good luck!

Crazymaisienumber9 · 18/08/2018 11:27

Thanks Arkengarthdale. It has been really incredibly draining and i dont think we really appreciate how bad until its all over. Hopefully some day it will be. I would never wish to contribute to anyones downfall in any shape manner or form but honestly it will be either her or me/ us. She is brutal in her behaviour. To look at her she is a tiny petite person which belies the personality that is within. I am the polar opposite of this so you can see why first impressions would make it difficult for outsiders to believe what she is capable of. When she wants she can sound so softly spoken then the lion roars and she is anything but softly spoken. As much as it pains me you are right, document document document ! Thanks for the well wishes.

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Crazymaisienumber9 · 24/12/2018 07:52

Update. For those who kindly offered support I thought I would update on the investigation outcome. And yes it has taken this long to get the outcome, last week. The investigation was completed at the end of August ! I haven't been formally notified of the outcome as I was 'only a witness' but my colleague has told me what has been said. Both parties have been told they have to have mediation and if they don't agree they will be disciplined, I find this odd as I didn't think this was something that could be forced. There will also be coaching for the team, and a values workshop held, again. I find it laughable that they have totally ignored the recurrent behaviour of this person and the fact that every issue within the team has one recurrent common denominator. I have spoken to my union rep due to my concerns that this individual is more than capable of turning her focus to me the next time I disagree with her, but my rep said I can't do anything at this point. In a way I'm not really shocked or surprised I knew management wouldn't do anything really, but I can't help but be disappointed in the management who have privately said they know what we are talking about, having worked with her historically, but officially do nothing. For myself I am continuing to treat her professionally but don't speak to her about any personal stuff. She has tried to engage me in personal conversations but I either answer monosyllabically or in a very noncommittal way. As ridiculous as this sounds I don't even trust her, even in a superficial way. She continues to do things that I see and hear about, that reiterates to me that my stance is the safest way for me. I follow up as much as I can with emails and if something untoward happens I write it down. Before we got the investigation results she said to a clerical colleague 'they can't do anything without proof'. Says it all . Thanks again for all the support, I hope I don't have to revisit at a later date, with the same protagonist, for a similar issue down the line. Merry Christmas Everyone. Thanks again.

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Mousetolioness · 24/12/2018 15:24

The outcome must be so demotivating. I wonder if your colleague who has had the mediation imposed on her would regard this about as useful as a chocolate teapot, in much the same way as marriage counselling is when one party will not be on board with the purpose. Maybe the union will have a view on this.
Or maybe your colleague had only to attend but not a duty to participate -which is how I would feel inclined if it were me and it was being imposed. Anyway, wishing you a Happy Christmas and a miserable as sin time for the bully! I know that's not in the spirit but then she's not a team player!

Crazymaisienumber9 · 27/12/2018 00:55

Hi mousetolioness, thanks , you are right this is so demotivating and disheartening for all of us concerned . I will be having a chat with my colleague, she knows this person will never admit or apologise for her behaviour so it is a pointless exercise so she may just go and show up as you suggest. The battle continues regardless and nothing has changed for us. My worry is she will be more emboldened having successfully caused more mischief with no apparent repercussions for her. We can only try to be more vigilant and proactive in documenting everything. Thanks again.

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