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Handed Notice In and All Hell Broke Loose...

691 replies

MyNameDefinatelyIsntJanet · 05/07/2018 09:05

I handed my notice in at work yesterday, it did not go the way I was expecting and I need to know where I stand legally.

For context, it's a fairly senior position, a big jump up the ladder for me and it took them 6 months to find someone to hire into my role before they got me. I've only been in the role 6 months. Over those 6 months, it's become abundantly clear that I'm not the right person for this particular role. They need someone with strategic skills and I'm a technician. I'm bloody good at my job and an industry expert, but they don't need that skill, they need someone who can do the big picture stuff with clients and that's not me. I've stopped enjoying the job and I do feel that it was mis-sold to me at the interview stage, but I'm not bitter about that. I tried it, it didn't work out.

I gave these reasons when I handed in my notice but my line manager was apoplectic with rage. She called me a liar and accused me of using her/ the company as a leg up and that this had been my intention all along (I'm going to an equally senior role in a much bigger specialist agency). This is completely untrue. The job I'm going to is a technical role and much more in line with my skill set but at the same level as now iyswim.

She walked out of the room and slammed the door behind her and told me to leave the office immediately. So I did and have had no contact since.

WTF do I do now? I haven't gone in to the office today but I've been responding to client emails as usual this morning as there's stuff I need to get done.

I've since realised I was never asked to return my signed contract when I was hired and found it in my collection of papers this morning. I have signed it, but they don't have a copy.

I REALLY don't want to go back to the office after yesterday, but I have a 6 month notice period so not having to serve this would be great. I'm not sure where I stand legally. I'm prepared to hitch up my big girl pants and go back in but I'm not sure if they're going to want that so my questions are:

Legally, do they have to pay me for my 6 month notice period even though they've asked me to leave the office (they haven't asked me to leave my position yet).

As they don't have evidence of my signed contract, do I have to serve out my 6 months?

I want to hand over things properly and make sure they've got a plan for my leaving, but should I even care about this after yesterday? I don't want to leave my team in the lurch Sad

Also, the new company is not a competitor of any kind with my current one.

Help?

OP posts:
Thinksthinksthinks · 05/07/2018 18:03

Hardly surprising I’d say - so you could comfortably recommend them to a better suited colleague or someone in your network without concern.

You seem to have two main options: help search for a replacement - and maybe pushback on wfh, but accept the 3-6 month notice, or, either get independent legal advice or advice through your new firm to try and get them to cave in the notice.

I’m not a high flyer, and maybe that is because I’d go for the conciliatory solution due to fears about needing references if the new job didn’t work out/needing to keep goodwill. Maybe that’spst already though?

ThankYouVeryMuch · 05/07/2018 18:04

@TalkinPeace I get what you mean about the female responses! When I was pregnant one of my coworkers not very subtly hinted that they thought I should hand my notice in because me being pregnant and going on maternity leave wasn’t “fair” on the company Hmm

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/07/2018 18:04

As is probably obvious, I don't know own how these things work, but if your new company really really wants you would they be able to negotiate your exit on your behalf? It sounds like they have people who know own what they are doing.

SadieHH · 05/07/2018 18:10

Ha. I knew it was digital marketing. That's what we do and I recognised the type of people straight away.

Pippylou · 05/07/2018 18:10

I think I would be emailing the CEO and pointing out that you are happy to work for the next 6 months in the office, during which time the clients will be treated well and any replacement can be trained up. Plus they get the client's cash...no aggro...

In that context, I think you're more use than the MD who is chucking the toys out of the pram and making life difficult all round?

Thinksthinksthinks · 05/07/2018 18:11

The selfish reasons for a non legal course are building your network if you can get someone in the job you know and handover, and also reputation damage. The M.D. and CEO may badmouth you anyway and perhaps those reasons don’t stack up against just getting on with the exciting new job?

ThunderInMyHeart · 05/07/2018 18:12

Jesus, DON’T get the new company involved in negotiating your exit! That’s absurd and massively unprofessional.

I don’t think you need a lawyer. This is hugely textbook, in the politest way. Just figure out what you want and ask for it.

They can’t make you work from home for 6 months if your contract says place ofwork is the office. Even if it doesn’t, it’s an easily arguable ‘not the role I signed up for’ situation.

The absolute most they can make you do is work from work for 6 months...in a basement office in the dark. They know they’re in a weak position. It’s only a matter of time before they admit the whole thing is unworkable, reduce the notice period, and pay you off. Play hard ball.

Thinksthinksthinks · 05/07/2018 18:12

Yeah I’m also wondering why the M.D. is getting to dictate wfh, because it doesn’t seem best for them. Enforcing the notice does!

TheReluctantFundaFeminist · 05/07/2018 18:17

I have to echo everything that FermatsTheorem has said. If this was a male employee speaking on a male dominate careers board the advise would be a lot different. Men do (quite rightly) tend to put themselves first and would have no hesitation climbing the career ladder quite aggressively if needs be.

At your age I handed my notice in to my employer when I discovered I was pregnant. They didn't ask me to, I just felt that it was my responsibility to save them any further hassle or expense.

Like fuck would I do that now.

I have no real advice for you (sorry) but just wanted to say that I am in awe of how you have handled this. You're bloody good at what you do and you dam well know it Grin

HollowTalk · 05/07/2018 18:19

Why is your pay so low, OP, given what you've done? I thought it would be much, much higher, particularly given the six months' notice.

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 05/07/2018 18:19

I think Not Janet really does need to find out what her legal options are from a legal professional. No one even needs to know she's done that and Not Janet, a few hundred quid might save you six months of misery.
If this company wants to keep NJ, they've really really gone the wrong way about it. It will be massively uncomfortable and demoralising, the MD is not going to forgive the apology she had to make she's already insisted that NJ can even be in the office.... what kind of working arrangement is that. And the owner backed up MD. Not NJ.
They made her so uncomfortable today she had to be sick by the side of the road. This is how they try to pursuade you to stay? Once they have got what they want do you think they will suddenly start treating you any better. I've worked out a long notice and it was hell. Everyone sort of behaved as if I'd already left, gave me the worst jobs and generally closed ranks.
The helpful colleague was having meetings with the MD and co, just before your meeting so don't ask her to be involved again.
NJ you need to get away from this firm.
Do not involve the new one.
Don't tell the headhunter anything more than move the date forward.
Find out from a lawyer what your best options are. if you can just go. and get straight into your new job.
This six month purdah will not be worth it for you or your old company and will puncture your confidence.

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 05/07/2018 18:20

*cant be in the office soz

NWQM · 05/07/2018 18:21

Agree that the advice could be very different if it was on a male board. You are handling this really well OP. Take some time to decide what the best outcome for you. Bravo for getting a new job. Good luck. Keep us posted.

BewareOfDragons · 05/07/2018 18:22

Hopefully the HR person from the company you are leaving for can give you some solid advice on how to play this.

I'd focus on seeing if you can insist on being in the office most days if they're insisting you stay on. Your manager clearly doesn't want you there; this might tip them into agreeing to paying you off to go away. Perhaps 3 months pay?

PrincessFiorimonde · 05/07/2018 18:24

Absolutely what FermatsTheorem said.

OP, good luck in negotiating the best deal for you re: what happens in the next 6 months.

Most of all, congratulations on your new job.

Doubletrouble99 · 05/07/2018 18:27

OK, so here are my thought as a 60 + with over 40 years business experience.
First of all the CEO offered to match the new you salary you had been offered so what would the MD have done if you had accepted? Especially if she is so against working with you that you have to keep away from the office?

I would tell them that your job is just not doable from home for the very reasons you mentioned earlier. I would leave it at that and see what they come back with. I would not mention that it would benefit you if you left straight away as they then have the upper hand.

TalkinPeace · 05/07/2018 18:27

Hopefully the HR person from the company you are leaving for can give you some solid advice on how to play this.
RTFT
Small company.
No qualified HR
really common scenario

Failingat40 · 05/07/2018 18:44

Your current employers are responsible for your health, safety & wellbeing in the workplace. If they are proposing to change your workplace to being at home then they need to arrange and carry out a risk assessment, especially in light of your history of mental illness when stuck at home in no routine.

If it were me, I'd request any further meetings are held with the CEO and possibly the rookie HR, leaving the M.D. out of it.

Hold out for working from the office, if they value you and your work they should be able to arrange a sole office for you to work from at least. If they refuse I'd want the reason why in writing and then propose the employment contract to be null and void due to them breaching the agreed terms.

Working from home Is a risk to your wellbeing, they need to accommodate you at work or let you go now on full pay.

I would also err on the side of caution with the new company, don't cross lines with this.

Cantaana · 05/07/2018 18:45

@TalkinPeace PP said the company she is leaving for, the new company, which has an HR guy she is meeting with tomorrow. OP has said the new company is much larger. The current company is the small one

Graphista · 05/07/2018 18:52

"She called me a liar and accused me of using her/ the company as a leg up and that this had been my intention all along" bloody hell! Even if you had that's a totally normal thing to do in a career! They don't own you!

Disclaimer - not an employment expert.

Ah small company then. It actually sounds like they're desperate, not running the business well, struggling to attract decent employees because they don't understand recruitment or retention (or the industry?) properly and are now panicking because actually for them you ARE a good employee with good skills. No wonder you want out!

For an MD to behave like that is outrageous!

Sounds like they're over-reaching on what they think the company is capable of and also don't have the capital to properly invest in new areas.

They sound incompetent!

Honestly it's an employers market for most at the moment, I wish there were a way companies could be rated as employers, publicly! There's far too many absolute horrors out there!

Well done for the foresight in creating a paper trail for the resignation. Sounds like you'll need it!

Op did nothing wrong in waiting until she had new contract before quitting this job. Until that point new job isn't guaranteed and op has bills to pay same as everyone else. If new job had for whatever reason fallen through she'd have continued working for this company. She can't make them understand something they're completely unwilling to hear. They could have taken her concerns on board and extended her probation period they chose not to. That's their look out not op's problem.

They recognise op's skill set and experience - yet refuse to acknowledge this means she also knows how this fits - or doesn't - in their business model and their ambitions for the company. They can't have it all ways!

Yes op - print out the email trail of your raising the issues etc in case they're daft enough (wouldn't put it past them) to delete them.

"Although it's a new area for them, they will have conducted research/feasibility studies before deciding to pursue it." Not necessarily - I've worked for small companies and seen them set up new depts and new branches on a whim! Given the evidence of their incompetence so far it wouldn't surprise me if little planning or forethought was involved.

"MD was forced to apologise to me for her behaviour yesterday" good!

Up until the 🤔 face about responsibility to clients I was supportive. You DO have a responsibility within the agreed notice period that nothing you do or don't do disrupts the service to clients.

MD sounds fucking paranoid as you're not moving to a direct competitor and it doesn't sound like they have reason to be concerned. But then I think actually maybe they're just embarrassed (as they should be) at the way they behaved and can't bear to be daily reminded for several months! Which is actually quite pathetic!

Get more info before you agree to anything.

Acas or lawyer - can they insist you work only from home?

Is that truly possible within the role? From your update at 1525 I would say it sounds as though it isn't.

Personally I think MD needs to grow the fuck up and get over their embarrassment/paranoia, you work 3 months in office but if possible in a private room, 3 months gardening leave unless they can't find a replacement within 3 months.

DEFINITELY get it all in writing.

And yes £35k sounds woefully low pay for the role described! No wonder they're having trouble attracting suitable applicants!

Post at 1553 sounds promising, perhaps an HR experienced person in similar industry may be able to help you come up with a plan to deal with all this.

bunbunny · 05/07/2018 18:52

OP I think it was mentioned up thread, but definitely worth checking if you have legal insurance included in your home insurance because it's free and there if you have it - might as well make use of it!

Definitely clarify what being a consultant means to them - I've been a consultant (albeit hired into the role in a consultancy company) and they typically expect longer hours and 'getting the job done' regardless of the time it takes you to do it... even when it has been mis-sold by the account manager and you discover that they have sold you in to do a particular task that you have told them will take 3 months but they have agreed to you finishing it all beautifully by the end of the first month, as the client has other deadlines they need it done by...

Or it could just mean sitting by the phone and answering the odd question here and there...

but it definitely needs to be locked down, and you need to push for plenty of time in the office, in order to do your job properly or be prepared to tell them that you're not prepared to compromise as it will reflect badly on you and them if you are not able to do what you need to do. Ditto when you're in the office - need to say that you can talk to people in the office and so on, so you are able to do what you need to do to bounce ideas around.

Plus an undertaking that you will be treated fairly and with respect and not bullied (and any other similar points as required)

Finally you know how difficult it was to recruit you - if they are making this dependent on somebody else turning up, then you need to ensure that they are heavily involved and getting adverts/agents/head hunters/etc sorted asap and that they are looking for a realistic person - ie young and cheap or pay more for an older more strategic person, so that they don't decide to try to keep you on and doing crazy hours and more and more in the next 6 months because they want to string you out as long as possible!

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 05/07/2018 18:54

I agree with Falling. Be very very careful about saying too much to the new company about any of this, other than can they bring the start date forward. This is why asking an employment lawyer privately about what your current firm can and cant do is the best way forward. None of the involved parties even need to know you have consulted one. But you will have a very clear picture of your rights and this will help in your negotiations.

bunbunny · 05/07/2018 18:57

oh and make sure that there is time protected for handing over projects and writing up protocols/procedures, identifying training courses for others, etc etc as part of your duties in the immediate future - you want to be training up the team and handing over asap, rather than them working you to the bone (fingers crossed they don't do this, but given the worst case scenario seems to be one that they are good at jumping to it's worth ensuring it's covered!) and then expecting you to have a magic team that has got all your skills and doesn't need any training, or worse expecting you to stay longer to hand over properly...

glintandglide · 05/07/2018 18:58

I imagine digital marketing is similar to marketing where they just exploit young talented people and pay them peanuts. In that context the low pay isn’t really surprising

JustGettingStarted · 05/07/2018 19:22

notJanet Did I read your earlier post correctly? It sounded like they proposed that you wfh for 3 months, then they'd try to replace you in 3 months, during which you'd be on leave but no more than 6 months.

Are you saying that they might expect NINE months? Or six months total? At any rate, they're unlikely to replace you in 6 months.

Working from home wouldn't be fun, but it sounds as if there is no possible "fun" solution if you have to work out your leave. The office will be a hostile place, now.

It sounds like you really want to get away and start the new job. That's understandable considering the events of the last 2 days.

But you may not get that. They could be spiteful and hold you to it.

In that case, you can only try to minimise the things you don't like. Wfh if you must, but try to take a long term view and not take anything personally. Give only what you think you can give, and then devote any spare time to doing things for yourself.

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