Some other substantial reason and conduct

[Employmentquestionname]

Long term poster changed name for this thread
(and must remember not to use my normal name as it will utterly out me)

Was recently called into a meeting with two managers that turned out to be one manager and the HR lady, at the end of which I was escorted from the building.
No prior warning, nothing in writing.

The reason given in the letter I received the next day was as per the thread title.
I was told the details were confidential (even from me)

I am in touch with ACAS. Very small company. No union membership.

Do any of the employment experts have knowledge of similar cases that went to tribunal that I can read to understand the likely outcomes.

Many thanks.

How long have you worked there?

The first questions would be how long were you employed for?

Ten years

Have you been advised that you are suspended pending and investigation of d ismissed?

Sorry OP, this must have come as a shock.

There is some case law mentioned on this page

www.no5.com/news-and-publications/publications/142-when-is-it-safe-to-rely-on-sosr-as-a-reason-for-dismissal-/

As this page mentions, has there been any internal reorganisation or any complaints from outside users of the company?

Well they haven’t followed required procedure in a number of ways so it sounds fairly clearly unfair dismissal. Compensation is based on actual financial loss.

Check the ACAS code of practice for disciplinaries to identify clearly which procedural elements they failed to follow. Appeal your dismissal on the basis of all the procedural shortcomings and no reason given for dismissal, no opportunity to defend yourself.

I can’t imagine it will get as far as a tribunal. Do you really have absolutely no idea where this has come from?

If you've worked there for 10 years then you have employment rights, however it seems strange that after 10 years they can suddenly escort you off the premises without giving you a reason.

I'm no employment expert but I've experienced suspension from work before and I've also been fired from one job. I was always told the exact reasons why though (stupid reasons and not true. In the first case, I got a very good lawyer and kept my job. In the second case, I had another job offer anyway so didn't really care and I hated the job I got fired from)

It seems really wierd that they wouldn't give you a clear reason. Can you think of anything it might be? Be honest. Theft? Swearing? misuse of company funds? misuse of computers / social media? any recent arguments with colleagues / customers / managers? Misuse of flexi / annual leave / sick leave?

My employment has been terminated.
They have sent me my P45 dated the day of the meeting.

I had a hunch the meeting would be unpleasant as there are a couple of old white men who do not like me
but when I asked what the topics of the meeting would be, no mention was made of anything disciplinary.

ACAS are being fab.

I'm not after money. My salary was low and I have other earnings, its the principle of how they have behaved.
I need to get my head around which instances of SOSR have stuck at tribunal.

They have pointedly NOT accused me of any misconduct, nor have I committed any.

”I need to get my head around which instances of SOSR have stuck at tribunal.”

I wouldn’t worry about that. They’ve completely disregarded a lawful procedure so the justifiable-ness or otherwise of whatever the SOSR is almost doesn’t matter. Easiest cases at tribunal are ones with clear procedural errors rather than arguing about the reason.

Thank you, you have made my weekend a lot better.
I can stop thinking about it for a couple of hours.

Good evening all
have been watching (and posting on) the resignation thread with great interest.

I've been given a date for my appeal hearing

• have still not been given any details of the SOSR

The three members of the appeal panel include two who were at the secret meeting to sack me
the "chair" of the appeal panel is completely in the pocket of the person who fired me (not an opinion, matter of public web record)

am I within my rights to request an independent appeal panel ?
(the company has enough people available at that level)

I have to get through the appeal to get my ACAS sign off so the real fun can begin

I'm not after money. My salary was low and I have other earnings, its the principle of how they have behaved.

^You should be after money and more. You are in an excellent position to take them to a tribunal and you will win. Take them for every penny.

Tee hee
I know how much money they have
its not enough - I'll take enough for a nice holiday
but seeing the old gits removed from influence is worth a lot more to me (as it will make my work much easier over the next ten years)

The AcAs code of practice sets out the requirement for (where possible) an appeal to be held by a manager who is preferably more senior to the manager who asked you and who was not previously involved in your case.

Would it be possible to have an independent appeal manager/s or is your company really small? Even if there isn't an independent appeal manager available and the manager who dismissed you has to hear the appeal they do have to be objective.

I suggest you write to them asking for an independent appeal manager not previously involved in your case.

Asked = sacked

I would ask your employer to send you their written policy on Disciplinary and Performance. With 10 years service, they need to have followed their policy on dismissal. They clearly have not followed good employment practice if you were completely taken by surprised by their meeting and your subsequent job loss. There should have been several steps in the process and you should have been given right to reply and offered options for support throughout.

You would build your Tribunal Claim on the basis that your employer did not follow a fair procedure and did not act reasonably in dismissing you for that reason taking into account all circumstances.

I'm surprised you sound so casual about how you've been treated. 10 years service is not insignificant. Presumably you did have some awareness things were going wrong.

I have the staff handbook which contains the grievance and disciplinary policies.
I have marked the bits they have complied with (not many) and the bits they have not (lots)

The job is less than a quarter of my total income which is why it is NOT about money. Its about principle.

The bullying started a year ago. I became the primary target around four months ago. I have spent the last year watching my back and making sure that NOTHING I did could be construed as misconduct.

So they fired me on SOSR, out of the blue.

I have not slept well for months.
I have spent many evenings in tears wondering WTF I did to annoy them so much other than being female

This is the most horrible thing that has happened in my working life. Worse even than being made redundant. It is impacting my whole family.
But I have to be strong because the bigger picture demands it.

How strange that they haven't given you any clues at all about why they sacked you.

It's not always possible obviously, but the appeal should always be heard by someone not previously involved if that's an option, so yes you should request that. If they say no, then that's just another way in which they will not have followed reasonable procedure.

Always
I know why the clique did not like me. I'm female and would not play their political games.
But nothing I've done has been anywhere near enough to justify the action they have taken.
Hence why they seem pretty loathe to put it in writing .... as then they have to substantiate their nasty looks and undermining insinuations.

Flowery
All of it is being driven by a small clique of the decision makers.
There are plenty of others who are legally able to hear my appeal, but the clique clearly do not trust them not to see the insanity of what is going on!

We shall see

as there are a couple of old white men

Is that the kind of language that you used at work. That could be connected?

Have you ever had a meeting to discuss your performance, conduct, anything at all that could possibly lead to instant dismissal. What reason have they given, what is the sosr they are talking about.

itscoming
The people in the clique are over 70 and male and white.
I am over 50 and white.
None of them were based in the office. I mostly worked from home.
There are emails about them that are less than flattering in nature both from and to myself and every other employee past and present.

manflu
I have repeatedly requested details of the SOSR but to date they will not tell me.
No, I have never had any sort of performance / disciplinary meeting / appraisal.
They have not accused me of any sort of misconduct or performance issue.

Is it anything to do with the emails, it sounds horrible, hope ACAS can sort it out, you don't want to be taken back do you, what will you do now apart from take a rest and enjoy the Sun.

There are emails about them that are less than flattering in nature both from and to myself and every other employee past and present

That sounds really odd and unprofessional? Why would you put unflattering comments in emails? It all sounds a bit strange.