Some other substantial reason and conduct

[Employmentquestionname]

Long term poster changed name for this thread
(and must remember not to use my normal name as it will utterly out me)

Was recently called into a meeting with two managers that turned out to be one manager and the HR lady, at the end of which I was escorted from the building.
No prior warning, nothing in writing.

The reason given in the letter I received the next day was as per the thread title.
I was told the details were confidential (even from me)

I am in touch with ACAS. Very small company. No union membership.

Do any of the employment experts have knowledge of similar cases that went to tribunal that I can read to understand the likely outcomes.

Many thanks.

always
Have you really never ever fired off a minor rant to a colleague about an unpleasant message from somebody else ?
Really?

Have you never forwarded a message to a colleague with
FFS or a sad face at the end?

Especially when there is a bullying environment and none of us knew who would be on the receiving end next ....

There are comments about me in email chains that I have accidentally forwarded which make "interesting" reading.
That is life.

I've never received or sent unpleasant emails about colleagues, I would not attach ffs or a smiley face on a work email. These interesting emails about you, why did they get accidentally forwarded. If someone had sent me a nasty email i would print it out, delete it and discuss it with the appropriate people, either management or union.

Have you really never ever fired off a minor rant to a colleague about an unpleasant message from somebody else ?Really?

No never.

Have you never forwarded a message to a colleague with FFS or a sad face at the end?

No and saying FFS would be a disciplinary action either in short or long form.

No unions.
I did discuss with manager. They agreed with me.

well maybe the FFS is the cause of the SOSR
but odd that its taken them three weeks to say so
and over a year since I typed it

PS
as a memo to anybody who spotted the "code 42"
MNHQ were fab at correcting the username on the post PDQ

for those who have been helpful on this and other threads, its worth being aware how quickly they can make the change.

Name again!!

OP
always
Have you really never ever fired off a minor rant to a colleague about an unpleasant message from somebody else ?
Really?

I have never put anything even vaguely ranty or unpleasant about a colleague in an email or text or whatever. I would think that would be a dumb thing to do.
As well as being unprofessional it would worry me that the message might get back to the person. I also think it would reflect very badly on me.

I think most people think the same as me.

Have you really never ever fired off a minor rant to a colleague about an unpleasant message from somebody else ? Really?

Have you never forwarded a message to a colleague with
FFS or a sad face at the end?

Nope. We have training courses annually to educate and control misuse of electronic communications. Emoticons are discouraged, as are text-speak, slang and expletives.

OP, just a reality check here.... if this job was only a quarter of your income, I would seriously consider the bigger picture - whether submitting a Tribunal Claim is worthwhile (and even whether there is a risk it could ultimately be classed as vexatious).

Tribunals are not there to resolve petty squabbles between colleagues in an organisation. They will require you and the employer to have taken every step to resolve your differences and to evidence that Tribunal is your last resort.

By all means attend your Appeal, but honestly, your latest update suggests you are somewhat blind to the fact that if you were as bad as them in using email inappropriately, you can bet that their court pack will include every scrap of evidence they can give to make you look bad.

It's massively expensive, time consuming and stressful going to Tribunal, don't throw your money down the drain and lose your sanity, just to prove a point.

To be honest any emails I may have sent / received / seen are not actually relevant.

I was sacked for SOSR
the details of which they are refusing to provide to me
they have not followed my contract / the staff handbook / ACAS guidance

I have my reasons for pushing through with this and everybody who I have spoken to in real life about it (who knows the issues around it) supports me.

I shall remember not to post when very stressed
and shall wait and see what happens next.

Similar happened to friend. Sacked, but not really given a reason why. Settled shortly before tribunal. Real reason (IMO) probably her face didn’t fit.

The tribunal process did flush out a list of reasons (the employer has to give that at quite an early stage) which then meant she could provide counter evidence.

My dad’s friend sits on tribunals and has told him that ‘loss of confidence’ with no specified reason for dismissal is becoming increasingly used by companies to get rid of people. He said in those cases the employer nearly always loses (because unless they have a shed load of evidence & have given someone the chance to improve, it is illegal) - they just rely on people not bothering to go through the process.

Sounds complicated op

they just rely on people not bothering to go through the process

For "not bothering" also read: does not have sufficient money to spend on legal fees required to prepare for Tribunal, plus representation. Upwards of £7,000 approx.

Also, although not in the OPs case, without 2 years' employment rights (and unless the Claimant can argue the dismissal is tied to a protected characteristic) the employer can use the "no confidence" reason to dismiss an employee, without any concern of a Tribunal Claim.

Just need to qualify the generalisations .....

Have you really never ever fired off a minor rant to a colleague about an unpleasant message from somebody else ?Really?

Often wanted to, but not done as you never know what well happen with the email when it's left you

Friend did it herself - with occasional advice from lawyers. Wasn’t cheap, but nowhere near 7k.

I agree they rely on the costs putting people off (& threaten costs orders with no reason).

I don’t know of anyone with less than 2 years service who would even try and go to tribunal. It’s the first thing you’re told.

My point really was to encourage the OP to go for it if she feels she has a case (& certainly sounds as if she does from what has been written here).

Hi all,
I have been given some "evidence" but the timings and compliance are still all over the shop.
Its very surreal and its clear that those who said they had unanimous support for what they did to me, didn't.
I have to wait for the internal processes to tangle themselves up and then I will proceed to tribunal.

I know there will be costs. I can cope. The long term gains are worth it.

A question for the experts ...

The supplementary information provided makes frequent reference to my "misconduct" long story etc etc
but I was was not dismissed on that basis

are they allowed to change approach part way through the process
or do they still have to prove SOSR
and compliance with ACAS?

I'm no angel, I admit that, but I have legal rights that I have stayed within, very carefully ....

It's impossible to assess your case based on few vague facts OP.

The more you write about not being an angel, having right etc etc says to me you need someone with your case notes in front of them looking at all the facts, circumstances etc because don't forget, you have rights but your employer does too, and they've probably got significantly more legal resource at their disposal than you.

You could try one of those No Win No Fee companies like Philip Landau, at least they can give you a straight answer based on fact.