Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Original poster

No redundancy after nearly 40 years at job

127 replies

Blueorredpill · 14/06/2018 08:07

My ex’s department is being moved to somewhere over 20 miles away and because he can apply for a job there, they say he will not be entitled to redundancy. He doesn’t want the extra travel time added on to his day as won’t see his children as much and they don’t pay him enough to cover the extra costs. Understandably he’s in a right state and has been signed off work. I believe he’s had legal advice and seen CAB. Any ideas? TIA

OP posts:
Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 14/06/2018 09:17

Too bad. If he’s had legal advice they’ll have told him that as the company are offering him a viable alternative (which it is), it’s not actually a redundancy situation.

OliviaStabler · 14/06/2018 09:17

You need to be exceptionally clear about what the actual situation is before you make enquiries.

You mention 'redundancy' and about your dh needing to 'apply for a job' in the new location. However from the rest of your op, it sounds like they are simply moving his place of work 20 miles and he is expected to travel the extra distance due to the mobility clause in his contract. Which situation is it?

Each situation will bring you different answers.

Bombardier25966 · 14/06/2018 09:19

So the commute is unnecessary.

The company disagree. They won't have made the decision for a laugh, there will be business reasons behind it.

Going off sick because of this is ridiculous.

A4710Rider · 14/06/2018 09:21

My ex’s department is being moved to somewhere over 20 miles away and because he can apply for a job there

I've been involved in the redundancy process a few times over the last few years. Your husband doesn't have a leg to stand on if he doesn't apply for the 20 job. 20 miles is a reasonable distance. If he applies and doesn't get the job then he should be entitled to 20 years with of statutory RP at a maximum of £507 a week.

Bit crap of his work not to explain this.

OliviaBenson · 14/06/2018 09:21

How old are the kids? Could he put in a flexible working request to work from home or the other office?

DuchyDuke · 14/06/2018 09:24

A 40 minute drive barely counts as a commute. If his MH can’t manage that, then I wonder how he has coped working there for 40 years!

snewname · 14/06/2018 09:24

Can he share the commute with other people who live near you and are being moved too? Saving driving and petrol?

LIZS · 14/06/2018 09:25

It would not be a redundancy situation if the same position or an equivalent role with a significant similarity (70% iirc) exists at another location within reasonable distance, unless there will be fewer of these roles than currently. He could try to argue for voluntary redundancy or early retirement but that is not a given.

Coffeeisyourfriend · 14/06/2018 09:26

My mum went through something similar a few years ago, the company moved the office from a small town to the city center and she didn't want to commute/work there at all.
They basically told her she could either relocate or quit and definitely wouldn't offer a redundancy package - they put this down to her being aware of the move months prior to it happening so had ample time to potentially get a new job however no one was actually told where they were moving until the final few weeks but of course no one could prove that. My mum ended up having to relocate but haggled for an earlier finish so she didn't have to wait an hour for a train home. My mum had only worked there 10 years at the time so maybe it's worth him having a chat with his boss, see if they are willing to offer him something like travel expenses to make it easier for him since he's been there so long?

UnsalariedPost · 14/06/2018 09:26

To put normal travel times into perspective. I travel 20 miles to my voluntary work in a charity shop 4 days a week. It's a 10 minute walk to the station, half an hour on the train, then another 10 minute walk to work. That's 50 minutes. I'm over 60 and I'm not even getting paid.
(However, they would pay my travel costs if I wanted to claim it)

I know it's different in the sense that I'm not forced to do it for a living, but it's by no means onerous and some people actually do it by choice.

Fuckedoffat48b · 14/06/2018 09:29

It sounds like his role has been made redundant and he has been offered 'suitable alternative employment'. He needs to argue that this is not the case, and that the employment is not suitable, in order to qualify for redundancy payment. You need to discuss this with a union (failing that a lawyer).

Bluntness100 · 14/06/2018 09:34

It doesn't sound to me at all like his role has been made redundant, it sounds to me exactly what she said it is, they are movin the department twenty miles away and he is expected to work from there, hence no redundancy option.

Everything else is personal to him, time with kids, mental health, travel costs. Companies are not expected to take these personal factors in when making a business decision to move such a short distance. If they were moving two hours away, yes, but a thirty or forty min commute to work is not unreasonable or overly onerous.

He will either have to suck it up or resign.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 14/06/2018 09:34

Why does it look like his role is redundant? Op said his entire department are being relocated, but he simply doesn’t want to go?

lifechangesforever · 14/06/2018 09:43

Unfortunately, he is right. There is an viable alternative being provided to him in order to keep his job, if he chooses not to accept then it's not redundancy. Went through this myself a few years ago - I did take the job and then was made redundant completely a couple of years later so it was the right thing to do.

Are they just picking up the department and moving it as it is or are there going to be any cuts at all or changes to the role itself? You could argue that the role is not like for like if so, but it wouldn't be simple.

MismatchedPJs · 14/06/2018 09:46

It doesn't seem an unreasonable expectation from the company really, albeit that there will be individuals, such as your DH, non-drivers, parents with childcare limitations who will struggle. I know several people who've had this local-ish relocation happen to them. It's what happens as companies grow and shrink, or get taken over, and office leases come to an end. It is a normal, if unwelcome, thing to happen.

I would suggest he applies for the job, and if he gets it, asks for reasonable adjustments such as working a day or two from home, or compressed hours. If they say no, he tries it for a few months, gains evidence that it's not working (if it doesn't) and asks again. If they are really obstructive about it, they may provide the evidence for a constructive dismissal case. Him just refusing to even give it a go is not going to get him very far in winning this.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 14/06/2018 09:47

It's not massively unreasonable to want to be reimbursed for the travel - in my workplace (public sector) an office move will involve staff being offered reimbursement for extra travel costs (mainly in the form of mileage claims, although they have sometimes reimbursed the cost of extra bus tickets etc). I think this is for a year but it's never applied to me so I can't remember.

Has he definitely got the same job in his new location, though? If he's having to reapply then that's a different kettle of fish.

happystory · 14/06/2018 09:49

Again, how old are the children? If he's been in the same job for 40 years he must be a minimum of 56.

2cats2many · 14/06/2018 09:54

All I asked for is some advice, why do some of you feel the need to make people feel worse than they already do?

But the advice from everyone is that he doesn't have a leg to stand on. Your issue is that you don't want to heat it.

violetbunny · 14/06/2018 10:19

Can he submit a flexible working request then, so he can either start/finish to minimise the impact of traffic, or else work from home a day a week? That might help minimise some of the impact.

ShotsFired · 14/06/2018 11:27

There are so many loose threads here it's almost impossible to understand the issue (not saying you need to provide answers OP, but more why we can't just say what you want to hear).

  1. The extra distance is not unreasonable, so unless his actual role is going, he can't be being made redundant. (Unless you are about drop a massive drip feed and tell us the new place is only accessible by helicopter and he has to pay for that or something?)
  2. The business won't have just decided on a whim - there will be reasons that you are likely not aware of. They can't/won't just let him stay on as he is if they are moving the whole department.
  3. He has had a very lucky commute for 40 years (maybe there are others who have been commuting 20miles and are now having the opportunity for the 10min walk themselves?)
  4. It does seem a little unusual to be paid so very poorly after such a long time. Why has he not progressed onto a better wage in all that time?
  5. The question about the children is also a bit odd - as many have said, they all manage to have family lives with similar or longer commutes, so we're not sure why this would upset your family applecart quite so much.
GameFrame · 14/06/2018 11:28

He wouldn't be able to handle the stress of a 40 minute commute? Come on.

Bibesia · 14/06/2018 11:33

If he's taken legal advice, he needs to follow it.

allmycats · 14/06/2018 11:50

It has still not been made clear by the OP as to what the actual situation is.
The whole department is being relocated - if this is the correct statement then his job is NOT being made redundant and it is the JOB not the PERSON who is redundant.
OP says he can apply for a job at the new location - is it the same job as he is doing now ? - if so why does he have to re-apply.
When we have clear answers to this then we might be able to make informed comments.

flowery · 14/06/2018 12:13

In the normal scheme of things a 40 minute commute is perfectly normal and, especially in the context of a contractual mobility clause, wouldn't prompt any discussion or consideration of redundancy. The job is still there, it is moving location as per the contractual clause, to a reasonable distance away.

However if he has specific mental health issues such that he is not fit enough to perform that commute on a regular basis, he needs to make sure that is crystal clear to decision makers, so that potential solutions can be discussed in the context of medical need.

Do his work provide Occupational Health services? He could ask his GP or other doctor he is seeing to write to his employer setting out the health reasons why this change is not possible for him, or the ways in which it would negatively impact his health.

Bluntness100 · 14/06/2018 13:00

I think if he's already signed off sick, and that's only at the thought of it then, things are already in a very bad place.

Clearly medical documentation would need to be provided to support the fact he's too mentally ill to undertake the commute. If it's not reasonable for the company to support a remote worker (ie he stays alone in current place and his department moved) and it seems it's not reasonable, his company may move to capacity termination. Ie he lacks the capability to get himself to work, do the job and get back. That's extreme though and right now thr balls in his court as to whether to move or resign

He should indeed follow the legal advice he's been given.