Why do people work part time ? I've never understood it...

[mozhe]

I never have, but lots of colleagues in NHS did....you end up doing 3/4 of the work for 1/2 the salary, and get passed over in the promotion stakes...And have you noticed that it's nearly always women who do this ? Why ? I actively discourage junior staff from doing this but lots seem to....

I thought feminism was about women having choices?

Xenia, I 'scraped' my GCSE's, I only passed 3 of them and was rejected a college placement, yet somehow throughout my apparent dimness I was the breadwinner in the house, managing to earn £350 a day as a freelance software consultant. I choose to be a SAHM because I have found myself much happier and more rewarded after sacrificing being financially very comfortable.

I can't bear the thought of 12 hour days, commutes and stressful work politics with a young family, I didn't want to pay someone else to walk my dog or raise my baby, and decided that to support my husband and family was more important at this stage. This was MY CHOICE, one that I was fortunate to make - not everyone has the liberty of choosing.

Who the hell died and made you god? Who do you think you are? Incinuating that SAHM's are somehow less intelligent is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Don't judge people on their education and assume their choices. Everyone is different. Live and let live, let people do what works for them. Everyone makes the best choices they have with the information available to them at the time but I personally feel a little annoyed that you pigeonhole people like me, who just 'scraped' an education.

Oh, I'm also blonde (natural, not that you are rasist). Gee, I must be a trophy too.

lol I evidently can't spell either ;-)

You know I just joined Mumsnet very recently and you are the first person who has infuriated me enough to speak up.

I personally think you have no life whatsoever and enjoy getting your kicks out of making confrontation.

Well, it's all nice and 'safe' on a message board isn't it? I bet you wouldn't have the guts to say boo to a goose in the real world.

I suppose everyone always agreed with everyone else's views threads would be about two lines long.

I stand by my comment that if you did a survey of stay at home parents (of either sex) and full time workers usually those working ful time have a higher IQ and more likely to have a degree etc because within a couple it's often an economic decision - is it worth she stops working on the Tesco check out given the cost of a nursery place or should she give up being managing director of Reuters.... on an economics basis usually those earning more who probably have more satisfying careers anyway tend to want to stick at them and those who really never had much of a career give up. I said in general. Lots of clever mothers and fathers choose to be home but I think if we did an overall survey of the country we'd find I was right. It makes sense, doesn't it?

i think she does spend to much time on her own stirring up on the net!

Yes Xenia, in a world where men and women are equal and have equal access to the same jobs and are payed equally for jobs of the same value and are educated equally, that makes perfect sense.

But you're living in a different world than most women. And men.

How can you have a higher IQ if you work so much you don't get to parent your children.

Even if you do have a higher IQ than someone else why would that make you a better person.

WTF has IQ got to do with chosen working patterns.

Ad nauseam.

A lot. Clever women tend to want to work and tend to find housework and babies' nappies dull. I don't think I'm really stating anything particularly extraordinary so not surprisingly more of them work outside the home.

some people seem to spend a lot of time on mumsnet who are sopposedly at work full-time in their high flying careers!

Xenia, really, are you deliberately trying to wind people up for fun? I can't think of why else you would right such rubbish. Of course housework and nappies are fairly dull but there is more to looking after children than those two things you pick up on. But of course, you wouldn't know that would you because you choose to go out to work.

I work for myself part time. I choose to so I can spend time with DD. I waited a long time for her and don't find her dull at all. I find the more you put in, the more you get out. It has absolutely nothing to do with how clever you are fgs.

I also have quite a number of friends who are a similar age to me but who don't have children and guess what? They too have chosen to work part time, set up their own businesses so they can work flexibly, have taken time out from work and develop portfolio careers. I suspect this is actually a woman thing just as much as it is a mother thing. Most of us don't want to flog ourselves to death all day, five days a week in a boring old office for the rest of our lives. We think there is more to life.

So with a BA, a Chartered Accountancy qual, a Diploma in Management, an MBA and an MSc in Finance in progress I guess I MUST be thick , given that I choose AND LOVE LOVE LOVE! being a stay at home mum. I beg to differ and would suggest that someone like Xenia is the one with the questionnable IQ and intelligence level, given her views and misunderstanding of the majority of women and what drives them as mothers. I think it is such an insult to even suggest that SAHMs or part timers must be, in general, lesser educated than f/timers and therefore dim.

Frankly speaking, neither education, nor hours of work or lack thereof, have much to do with trying to be a good mother and doing what is right for your children within the constraints faced.

As Xenia said - she would rather be cleaning pub toilets than staying home with her kids. That speaks for itself. What lucky lucky children she must have.

In a addition she is obviously anti-male for some reason. Although I can think of many reasons to criticise some men, they are not all bad. There are still wonderful men out there who are willing to do all they can to help in bringing up their children by working full-time thereby enabling the mother, who is often the main carer, to stay home or work lesser hours so that she can dedicate more time to the family. It may surprise you but some of us WANT to and I , for one, am grateful to have the opportunity to do so!!!
Xenia may be incapable of understanding this so I will stop wasting my own precious time. As they say 'ignorance is bliss' and I don't think anything anyone says here will allow her to understand this point of view.

I wish Xenia, and those who agree with her point of view, all the best and suggest that we all agree to disagree and move on to a more constructive thread.

Well said, Chica.

Chica, I said more on average and certainly not all. Very clever well qualified women often marry richer men who can afford to keep them because thankfully some men like clever women so that group sometimes do choose to stay at home, God knows why, but they do. But I still think if we did IQ testing over 10,000 stay at home and working mothers you'd find the brightest like and enjoy their careers and those who didn't have much of a career are more likely to be at home.

Again I disagree. I think you might find that those women you refer to as 'brighter' (by which I assume you mean would get a higher score in an IQ test) are actually intelligent enough to implement a balance in their lives - an important part of which is spending as much quality time with their kids while they still can, whether working or not, in addition to addressing home, family, friends and own self development issues (which may or may not be work related) It would not be solely to pursue a career and higher income/ avoiding home and domestic issues at all costs.

I feel your view point of what makes a woman 'valuable' to herself or others is so narrow and focused on 'working' in paid employment. There are many women who are SAHMs who volunteer their services - are they also dim? Try to see sahms/ p-timers as 'working' for the development of their families and themselves. What is it about 'stay at home' that bugs you so much?

From your survey population I think you would find that there is little correlation between education levels (of mums) and 'choice' of working or not working. Obviously there would be a high correlation between education levels and income levels. Income levels may have some correlation with full-time working mums as you would expect that a top exec woman may be the higher earner in the household - in which instance you may often find that the husband stays home or works fewer hours to be with the children.

An important statistical correlation would be between increases in numbers of children and 'choice' made. You would most likely find that as numbers of children increase (on the condition that there are two earners in the 'family' and/ or choice is an option), the number of mums choosing to work part-time or stay home would increase - leading us to the well-known conclusion that most mum's, given the financial choice, see the value and actually want to spend time looking after their children, knowing full well that they can return to work in the future. Obviously there are exceptions to this.

Sorry to have to get into the boring stats here but you keep referring to this hypothetical survey which does not justify your comments at all.

The issue here, lest we forget, is that part-time work/sahms has been dismissed as a foolish option and you have implied/ stated that those who make that choice are of a lesser intelligence, in general, than those who choose full-time work.

I would like to say that no matter whether full or part time (or sahm), the majority of mums try to do the right thing for their children and should be admired. No judgments should be made by either group.

Very few agree with you on this and MOST disagree - so in your land of surveys (if we went for the same survey population)you would find that support for your opinion would be so little as to make it insignificant in the grand scheme of things - so let's move on.

adopts stance of member of Rikki Lake audience
Go Chica, Go Chica, Go Chica!

I never said all those who choose to stay at home are less clever. I said if you did a survey on average they would be but not all of them.. Generally better educated women work and want to work, that's all. If you never had much of a job and aren't very bright then you're more likely to be at home. Surely that's self evident?

Even if the City it's often those women who would never have been up to much anyway who bow out because they know they'd not reach the top and the excuse of going home to make babies gives them a get out which men don't usually have.

Who is Rikki Lake?
And don't use the "kids" word please on threads I am on. It upsets me.

Xenia,
I was working as a solicitor when I became pregnant and was always good at passing exams at school and university etc (not that I think that this is the best indicator of intelligence).
I never intended not going back to work and signed up for loads of nurseries before giving birth to my first born 5 years ago.
However the minute that I held my son in my arms for the first time, the idea of allowing someone else to care for him in his early years just suddenly seemed ridiculous. I just felt such a hormonal surge of love for him that there was no other option but to stay at home.
The main drawback has been financial as we could really do with two incomes. However the cost of childcare means that I don't really think that returning to work is worthwhile for us as a family. I plan to take a chunk of years off and then return to work gradually (part time at first)perhaps in a different, more family friendly profession such as teaching.
I have read quite a few times that it tends to be the most educated, properous women who become SAHMs because they are more ambitious and want to help their children to do well in life. Again, I'm not too keen on this stereotype but it may have some truth in it.
I've been really glad to get out of the office for a few years and spend some time at home with my children. I feel more sorry for my husband who slogs his guts out every day with no end in sight until retirement in 30 years time.

I don't know who Rikki Lake is, but I do know that Xenia will never alter her stance on this subject!

You are all talking to the proverbial brick wall.

Ah but you get drawn in forty

Occasionally you think no one else will post adn then she'll just have to address your point...

I know I know, hope over experience...

I don't bother any more!

ps - I did the National IQ test on tv a few years ago and am apparently in the top 1% of the population. Obviously terribly wasted as a sahm for umpteen years and now working part time for a Local Authority.

I actually rather like Xenia, you know.