NHS staff leaving - forcing others to leave

[CountryLovingGirl]

Hi,

21 years in the NHS and I have never seen it so bad. We don't work as nurses but do nights/weekends just the same, in a professional role. However, before Jeremy Hunt announced that he wanted a 7 day NHS, without increasing staffing levels, we only did 1 in 4 weekends and a manageable amount of on-call/nights. Now we are working a ridiculous amount of weekends and nights etc. then quick turnaround for early shifts. Staff are tired. There is nothing in our contract to stop them. Management all work M-F 9-5 of course.

The increase in out of hours and a ridiculous pattern of shifts (causing staff to become tired and no quality of life) has put pressure on staff especially parents. We have had a lot of sickness (not myself but close colleagues I've worked with for years) and this, in itself put pressure on the ones remaining as the same number of shifts needed to be covered. We had 3 members of staff off for over 6 months. Their shifts had to be covered by the rest of us.
People also struggle to get childcare now. No family friendly working apart from the few who already had it. Again, this puts pressure on the remainder.
In the last 4 months we have had 4 staff resign. They were absolutely distraught. All mums, 3 of them were part time but still struggled. They had all gone through university etc. and had many years of training. All 4 had no job to go to but they just could not go on.

In a drive to save money the above staff were replaced with lower grades. They are unable to work weekends and nights as they are not qualified to be left unsupervised. Again, the pressure mounts on the remaining staff. Can you see the picture forming?

Sadly, I am now finding it impossible to continue myself. Struggling with childcare and tiredness. Highly specialised in my field but can't go on.

Is anyone else in the NHS finding the cutbacks and 7 day service thing a bit too much? Why can't the unions do anything?

It is the government to blame though, they are trying to get exactly the same service over 24/7 without employing any more staff from when it was mon-Fri with on-call covering out of hours. And its not just clinical staff that are expected to do it, departments which were always office hours are now expected to be 24/7 too. They won't employ more people and the ones remaining are spread too thin and can't cope. Part timers are pushed to increase their hours, lone parents expected to work night shifts, people with disabilities made to feel shit for 'letting down the team'. Management keep saying its all fine to their bosses, but it really isn't.

There absolutely are some great managers out there. We used to have one. They were lovely, caring to staff, hugely respected clinically and refused to bullshit to the powers that be when things were not ok. They were managed out and told they did not have the right priorities.

Their job was given to someone who talks constantly about 'customers' (they are staff and patients, not customers) and budgets and who refuses to tell the top level of management when things are shit. Although there is no money for more staff, they have found money for a new senior manager who is an additional member of staff. They are massively popular at board level but universally hated by staff. So even more people have left.

Makes me groan inside when people talk about customers. Especially because these days it seems like the CCGs are the customer.....the patients are the product!

Managers get a tough deal here too. So many KPIs and they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They can’t magic up extra staff, they can’t recruit if they don’t have the budget yet they are held accountable for breaches or delays in patient care. Not to mention the ethical/moral burden placed in them because, hell, they do actually care about their patients in their pathway. They take work home with them, literally and metaphorically. They have to make decisions on whether to cancel clinics or operations because of medical staff shortages. That’s not easy and they feel shit about it.
It’s not easy on any staff group. Life is tough out there. But it’s also one of the most rewarding careers to have when things go ok.

I feel your pain.

I left the NHS yesterday after 17 years as a qualified children’s nurse. I can’t take any more. Unrealistic targets to be met, short staffing levels and high pressure, not to mention like many other areas of the public sector, no wage increase for many years.

Morale is at rock bottom (due to the pressures all of this is having a major impact upon my health) so I had no choice, and I am not alone, several other nurses are looking elsewhere and at least four of us have left our department over the last two months!!

Teacher here. Colleagues resigning in droves. School staffed by unqualified teachers.

Yep-Education and the NHS are both a total nightmare at the moment. Where will it all end?

In the 5 years I was on ward x they lost over 38 members of staff(both qualified band 5s and hca/band 2)

Plus I've heard through the grapevine that the ward has just lost another sister and two nurses and 2 more hca are on the way out.

More and more staff with stress and raised Bradford scores.
More complaints from relatives and patients.

Being expected to care for 8 patients of increasing levels of unwellness(is that even a word) with less and less support staff,some shifts dont even have a housekeeper to make teas and coffees.

More and more paperwork and sometimes you are just repeating what has been written else where and heaven forbid if you don't get everyone washed by lunchtime and your paperwork finished before your shift officially ends(nurses miss their breaks and stay late to finish up) this ward is now getting the night staff to wash x number of patients before the day shift starts because the days are far too busy and no matter how good a nurse you are you simply cannot do 15 hours of work in 12.
Oh but don't worry as soon the band 4s will be around to help,at the expense of the had and qualified nurses.

I used to work elsewhere in Northern Europe and honestly I was appalled when I came back to the UK. It appears to me that most of the money in the last 30 years has gone into house buying/speculation in the UK rather than public services. The thing is you cannot have everything in life. You make choices and you hear of people living in in flats worth £300,000 moaning about the poor services. Wake up. Even countries richer than ours have had to make choices. With an ageing population and indeed a growing population we need to decide what our best options are. I assure you that I have never seen anything so bad as the services in the UK apart from the USA where you have to pay. Decide now . Better services or lesser services and posh houses.

How do nhs staff manage to get signed off for 6 months? Are they on full pay during this time? And why do people still think it's a worthy institution and should be saved at the expense of peoples lives? It's a dangerous crumbling failure and needs to go. But then whenever any plans are made to start changing it all the nhs staff protest 'save our nhs' bla bla bla

Not NHS but a very large corporate and u have seen things deteriorate massively in the last 5 years. Most white collar jobs are being offshored and those left have huge workloads and are constantly being threatened with "if you don't work longer hours we can offshore your job".

Everyone I know is contracted to work 36-40 hours per week but most are working 50. No payrises for a few years and pay conditions are not great. No final salary and most people can't afford to save for their pensions and if they are doing it will not be enough in old age. It's alk pretty grim.

Tooth and if the NHS goes who will be caring for the illnesses of an aged population? As most certainly wouldn’t be able to afford to pay for health care and have spent thousands on NI contributions

@ivy i have no idea i don't have all the answers, maybe some people could start doing co-pay etc. Lots of options. I have private heathcare because the nhs is shit; disorganised, ineffective and killing people. Yet there are people paid 6 figure salaries to run it this way. I don't want to pay for the nhs - don't use it and think it's a failure. I want it gone - it needs to be torn down and started again. It's inevitable anyway, it won't last the way it is. So i don't have to do anything - we just have to wait for when!

Have now started a permanent job in a different trust, so my leaving has impacted the department I was working for. I have been replaced by another bank worker but from what I have heard from my ex-colleagues, she is no where near as on the ball or efficient as I was.
Been in my new role, two weeks this Monday and we are now losing our bank member of staff, as she has found a permanent job to go to.
So my distinct impression is that using bank staff is harmful rather than helpful. Useful as a stop gap but if people can up and leave when they like, this is going to happen, as people do need job security.
I think where my old department went wrong, was working on the assumption that I didn't need some kind of heads up when permanent roles were there to be applied for. Once I told them I had found a permanent position, there was a lot of wringing of hands by the management team but if they had've been more proactive in trying to retain me as a permanent staff member then I would not have been leaving.

Tooth

You realise that your private health care won’t pay out for all your care in several illness don’t you?

If day you were to get ovarian cancer and had two years worth of treatment and needed further treatment - what will you do when your healthcare insurance stipulates they are no longer paying? Will you have the funds to pay yourself each month, you’re not able to work full time due to illnesses

You want NHS to stop but have no answers to how to give people medical care or keep them alive when they’ve actually paid for a service for all their working lives

And the top scenario actually happened and the patient went to the NHS for the rest of her treatment

@ivy no i don't have a plan, not my job - maybe the people paid 6 figure salaries to cancel operations could come up with a plan? I think the nhs is not working. I would like to see an effective healthcare service and would be prepared to pay for it.
If that doesn't suit nhs worshippers - so what? Not my problem.

I've always thought that staff need to make a stand - why are you working 50 hours if contracted to work 40?
Walk off the ward.
Yes, patients will suffer but until someone makes a stand this will go on.
(Iworked in the NHS 30 years ago and had the same attitude then but the dedicated staff 'put the patients first' so were shafted).

Tooth

It may well be your problem

You just have to get into a car and the chances of it being your problem increase, your private health insurance won’t pay for emergencies

I doubt if you where trapped in a car in it roof you’d send away paramedics from an NHS hospital

@ivy you know what's tiresome? THe painfully defesnive attitude of some around the nhs. I am NOT saying it should go completely - every country needs ambulances and a&e, but i do not think it works in the current format. People blindly burying their heads in the sands about the nhs are a burden - it is not fit for purpose in 2017 and is failing. Don't need to be einstein to figure out that means it needs to CHANGE. Fucking hell.

The years of no pay increases is taking its toll on the other staff as well. Can't recruit when people can make a lot more elsewhere... So carrying vacancies and the remaining staff have more work, or have to pay more for agency staff..

Perhaps this is the whole point of it, drive public services down to their knees until most agree something needs to change, then bring in private institutions instead. Most European countries have a health care system where you pay for national insurance, and then a fraction of a cost for any service and state pays the rest.

tooth What’s tiresome is when you say

I want the NHS gone i don’t want to pay for it

Then decide that actually they could be in an accident and need A&E so retract that to

Well it can’t go on as it is I want to keep parts of it, particularly the bits I can’t pay for else where

Do make up your mind....

Pretty clear toothy is just posting to goad people, they don't want a constructive conversation and they're content to call people "thicko".

The NHS did work well for many years - not perfectly, but at a level where other countries looked to it as an example of good practice. It was also a pretty great place to work. The lack of funding started before this government, but from their actions over the past seven years it is clear they are intent on decimating it. I left some years ago but hats off to those that remain, we can only hope that one day the hard work and campaigning will pay off.

@bombad im not, its what i actually think. And i do think some people are thick. 🤷🏻‍♀️

tooth you can think what you like

It’s clear if you had any type of reference as to why private health care would be better you would have given it by now