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Original poster

Would you do anything if you were convinced you were rejected for a job because you are a woman with children?

48 replies

newmumwithquestions · 20/07/2017 09:30

Sorry, it's long!

I went for an interview recently. I put periods of maternity leave on my CV so they knew before interviewing that I had children.

I work in a specialised area so there aren't loads of people with experience. My experience exceeded all 'essential' requirements on their job description and all but one 'desirable' ones.

I know getting a job is a lot about how you will fit within the team but the interview questions went really well. (I've been for another interview recently where although I ticked boxes on experience I know the interview just didn't go very well - this one was totally different).

I was lucky that the technical questions they asked were in areas I knew really well. One panel member recognised me from a presentation I had given a few years ago which he said was excellent. They asked me if I could stay to meet their CEO later.

Then.... the questions about children and childcare started. The job required irregular/on call hours which I said I could cover (I had thought long and hard before applying for the job). They asked me for details. They probed me on OHs job, where I would arrange childcare, when the DC were due to go to school, what I'd do about childcare then, what I would do if a DC was ill. How I would cope if I missed a DC birthday, how I would feel about the commute. Very detailed questions. Thing is at one point I said that OH occasionally (up to every few months) had to go away on trips for a couple of days at a time (always arranged in advance). Their faces dropped. There was a couple of seconds silence and the atmosphere instantly became more distant. I told them I could make appropriate childcare arrangements. I genuinely think this was the reason I didn't get the job.

On rejection I asked for feedback. If they had picked up on the one 'desirable' characteristic that I didn't have I would have thought fair enough (they didn't ask me about this at interview). I received a couple of paragraphs of all positive feedback. Then a very bland comment saying they look at a variety of factors when making their decision. No details.

If I'm right and I was discriminated against for having children is there anything I can do? I obviously will never get the job but it's bugging me that companies get away with discrimination.

OP posts:
Kr1stina · 20/07/2017 09:38

All the detailed questions about childcare are discriminatory unless they also asked male applicants with children.

If you want to take it further you need legal advice.

For your next interview tell them that you partner is a SAHP.

Alanna1 · 20/07/2017 09:46

I would second taking legal advice and quickly, and I wouldn't necessarily assume that you wouldn't get the job there, if you handle it well, although i agree it's unlikely. Good luck.

senua · 20/07/2017 09:46

Why on earth do you want to work for a company that requires you to prioritise them above your DC's birthday? Find a better, more family-friendly employer.

Syc4moreTrees · 20/07/2017 09:52

Have they listed the questions asked and answered on their feedback forms? Did they take contemporaneous notes? As PP has said, they can't ask you about childcare if they don't ask every candidate with children, although you obviously have no way of knowing whether they have or haven't. Could just be that a male candidate will be more appealing because he has no gaps in his CV.

If they haven't provided comprehensive feedback ask again for more details, to "help you moving forward in your job search".

I think as you had a good set of answers to the childcare issue it's entirely possible they just interviewed a better candidate.

puzzleyourface · 20/07/2017 09:54

Sorry you didn't get the job. This is not ok. And the questions they asked are definitely unreasonable.
Please do seek legal action. You will be standing with all the other women discriminated against in this way.

Could you seek advice from your local CAB?

Kr1stina · 20/07/2017 10:10

Don't bother asking the company for more details. If they have asked discrimatory questions they won't tell you that in a letter or email .

It's standard practice to give a bland reply - you met a lot of the person spec but the successful candidate was better suited to the postion, we wish you well in your career / job search.

Original poster
newmumwithquestions · 20/07/2017 15:10

I think as you had a good set of answers to the childcare issue it's entirely possible they just interviewed a better candidate.

Yes it's possible, but wouldn't they have given me something definite to go on for feedback? It's a long while since I interviewed and I've never given feedback directly to candidates but used to give it to agencies, HR depts. I always said the reason. If they'd said you didn't perform as well as other candidates on x or other candidates had more experience of y then that would be something I could work on.

OP posts:
Original poster
newmumwithquestions · 20/07/2017 15:15

Why on earth do you want to work for a company that requires you to prioritise them above your DC's birthday? Find a better, more family-friendly employer.
Err - like who? There aren't many! Certainly not in my industry. If things don't work out then I'll have to retrain but we can't afford for me to do that until the kids are at school and even then it'd be tight. OH doesn't want to leave his job so I'm limited geographically.

OP posts:
pitterpatterrain · 20/07/2017 15:22

If you believe all employers in your area are likely to take children as a red flag to not employ you remove it from your CV and never mention it. It doesn't need to be on there anyhow.

It sounds like a rather bizarre interview approach- completely down the rabbit hole about things which 1) they shouldn't ask anyhow and 2) why "I can sort it" is not enough seems odd.

Perhaps rule this company specifically out - do you think they would try bizarre things to 'test your loyalty' even if you did get the job?

EnglandKeepMyBones · 20/07/2017 15:24

You need to take advice and most likely issue a formal grievance. Their questioning should not of happened and the entire situation is discriminatory.

Yvetteballs · 20/07/2017 15:31

Agree, they shouldn't have asked these questions. Get some advice and take it further, not with a view to working for them though. You couldn't feel happy there with the attitude they've shown.

GasLightShining · 20/07/2017 21:26

Aren't you still an employee when on maternity leave or was it extended leave?

Original poster
newmumwithquestions · 21/07/2017 00:25

Ok thanks. I'll see if the CAB can help as a first point of call.

i've sat on this for a few weeks which isn't ideal. I am a bit torn which is why I didn't do anything initially- it really is a very very small industry I work in so if I raise a grievance I'll harm my prospects of getting work elsewhere.

But if I don't do something I'm accepting their decision process which I'm pretty sure was prejudicial so I feel I should do something!

OP posts:
Original poster
newmumwithquestions · 21/07/2017 00:34

Aren't you still an employee when on maternity leave or was it extended leave?

I've been freelance for nearly 4 years so I don't know how that works - officially I have remained an employee of my own company but I haven't taken on work.

I was full time freelance for a year, then I took 9 months off with DC1, then I took a contract which spanned 6 months but it wasn't full time and the last 2 months I really didn't do much. Then I took 18 months off with DC2. In the last month I've started doing a few bits of work again (very short term stuff). So if I don't mention it I think it's pretty misleading as it definitely hasn't been 4 years of work.
But maybe I should remove all reference to maternity leave from my CV?

OP posts:
pitterpatterrain · 21/07/2017 07:41

Ah ok, I was thinking a continuous employment situation. Perhaps "caring responsibilities" as more ambiguous?
But yes appreciate you want to clearly represent the timeline / experience

It may have been a really ham-fisted job of asking what has changed / are you committed.

Do you feel confident to close that discussion down if it comes up again?

pitterpatterrain · 21/07/2017 07:43

Perhaps put your freelance role with the whole timeframe and write a description that indicates you had varying length contracts.
I suppose I am thinking what would a guy do who didn't find continuous contracts

IrritatedUser1960 · 21/07/2017 07:49

Trouble with getting legal is that you'll have a lot of trouble getting another job, nobody wants to employ someone who discrimination sues. I'd think really hard about that.
I personally would not risk my career doing it. It really sucks though but this happens again.
Various employers of mine have said they never employ women with young children or women who might be taking maternity leave. Ive been quite appalled at the continuing discrimination in 2017!!
I'm 55 and get every job I go for with the dinosaurs because I have no ties and can come in anytime.Older people are quite popular with companies now.

EnglandKeepMyBones · 21/07/2017 07:59

If you've sat on it for a while I would move fast. You only have a limited time in which to bring action (three months minus one day) so the clock is ticking.

AgentProvocateur · 21/07/2017 07:59

You need to take any reference to maternity leave off your CV. You were freelance - no need to mention it. It was maybe (wrongly) seen as fair play to ask you about childcare etc as the fact you had them and their ages was already "out there".

chipsandpeas · 21/07/2017 08:00

But maybe I should remove all reference to maternity leave from my CV?

Yes

HeadDreamer · 21/07/2017 08:03

I agree with others I wouldn't want to work there. When I looked for a job a couple of years ago, I specifically asked about flexible hours and work from home policies. I don't want to work for anyone who don't understand we have children and sports day. DH works away sometimes and always planned like yours. And I need to cover both pick up and drop off those days. I also need WFH when children are ill and for nativity etc. I do my job well and I make up for lost time.

It sounds like you are a qualified professional and I'm sure you can find a family friendly employer.

LaurieFairyCake · 21/07/2017 08:35

I think I would find this massively dispiriting. I've now read so many times of this happening on Mumsnet that I think I'd just lie/fudge the truth from the beginning - along the lines of 'I have a partner who works from home/I have a nanny'.

woollychimp · 21/07/2017 08:36

Sounds like clear discrimination - someone took one of my old employers to an employment tribunal after he didn't get the job following, and won £18k in damages.

Part of the reason was down to the fact that the candidates had not been all asked the same questions at interview, proper notes and scoring procedures hadn't been followed.

But it's the sort of situation you need to get professional advice about first I think.

And re your CV - definitely remove refs to maternity leave.

woollychimp · 21/07/2017 08:38

that should say 'following interview'

BestIsWest · 21/07/2017 08:40

Irrirated How would another employer know you'd sued?