Would you do anything if you were convinced you were rejected for a job because you are a woman with children?

[newmumwithquestions]

Sorry, it's long!

I went for an interview recently. I put periods of maternity leave on my CV so they knew before interviewing that I had children.

I work in a specialised area so there aren't loads of people with experience. My experience exceeded all 'essential' requirements on their job description and all but one 'desirable' ones.

I know getting a job is a lot about how you will fit within the team but the interview questions went really well. (I've been for another interview recently where although I ticked boxes on experience I know the interview just didn't go very well - this one was totally different).

I was lucky that the technical questions they asked were in areas I knew really well. One panel member recognised me from a presentation I had given a few years ago which he said was excellent. They asked me if I could stay to meet their CEO later.

Then.... the questions about children and childcare started. The job required irregular/on call hours which I said I could cover (I had thought long and hard before applying for the job). They asked me for details. They probed me on OHs job, where I would arrange childcare, when the DC were due to go to school, what I'd do about childcare then, what I would do if a DC was ill. How I would cope if I missed a DC birthday, how I would feel about the commute. Very detailed questions. Thing is at one point I said that OH occasionally (up to every few months) had to go away on trips for a couple of days at a time (always arranged in advance). Their faces dropped. There was a couple of seconds silence and the atmosphere instantly became more distant. I told them I could make appropriate childcare arrangements. I genuinely think this was the reason I didn't get the job.

On rejection I asked for feedback. If they had picked up on the one 'desirable' characteristic that I didn't have I would have thought fair enough (they didn't ask me about this at interview). I received a couple of paragraphs of all positive feedback. Then a very bland comment saying they look at a variety of factors when making their decision. No details.

If I'm right and I was discriminated against for having children is there anything I can do? I obviously will never get the job but it's bugging me that companies get away with discrimination.

I would not sue. It would be shooting yourself in the foot professionally in such a small industry. No employer wants a troublemaker. HR issues are very time consuming for management and they would generally prefer to stick to the safe and employee that they train up than a skilled one that is a resource, time suck and potential reputational risk on the HR front. What manager wants to be on the other side of a claim for sexual discrimination - most would run a mile at even a sniff. It is unfair but perceptions count for a lot when trying to get your foot through the door.

I think you should see it as a lucky escape for you. You are looking for the right fit of employer too, and they don't seem to be accommodating. You have just saved yourself months and possibly years of grief.

Personally, I would be quite bland about the fact I have children. If it is just maternity leave, I don't think it is standard to put that down as a break. I have not seen that done before. Maternity leave is still continuous employment. If it is flexibility and family-friendliness you are looking for, you can ask after the company has made the offer.

If I were reading a CV which said maternity leave or mentioned the fact you had children, I would think that is not particularly relevant to the job and by flagging it, the implication is you are a mother above being an employee which indicates where your priorities lie. Hence, it could be why you drew so many probing questions on that front (it is still illegal if discriminatory).

As an employer/manager, if the job allows, we are very flexible. Generous with pay, work from home, parental leave and sabbaticals. However, employers are still looking for an employee who gives 100% to the job, even if they are prepared to be flexible.

Whilst that sounds like you, your CV says something else. I just wanted you to see the perspective that someone reading your CV might take.

They aren't allowed to ask you about childcare. Yes it's discriminatory. Speak to a lawyer normally you can get half an hour free

And this is why so many companies don't even interview women - some very bad advice on here... At the end of the day the company needs a commercial contract with staff - they will want to understand how that is going to work and it is not illegal or discriminatory to ask about childcare as long as all being interviewed are asked...

sure - if you know that other candidates were not asked the same question, then fine... also if you know that the answers to that show why you were not offered a job then fine, but this approach of lets sue the minute something doesn't go the way you want is really not on... I have been involved in interviewing for many years (all sorts of jobs) and it is very simple to ensure that questions asked are initially the same of all candidates, however every candidate is also unique so different questions will be asked of each - an anodyne and bland interview does no-one any good... decision to appoint may be really obvious (skills v. no skills) but equally may be very subtle and not even directly related to answers given or questions asked...

I wouldn't sue, not for the simple reputation issue but the bottom line is it could have been they had a better candidate. You don't know who else was interviewing and what their experience skill set is. It's very hard to argue you were the better candidate against an unknown competitor, it's also hugely subjective.

I wouldn't sue. I would focus all my energies on getting another job and THEN I would write a very open letter direct to the CEO (did you get on well with them?).

I would also remove all references to maternity leave from my cv, and if ever asked (illegal) questions about child care in an interview again simply keep repeating "I have bulletproof childcare in place, I am committed to doing this job 100% and have made the appropriate arrangements. I am happy to talk my line manager through them if I get the job". Don't give specifics - it's none of their business.

But Bluntness, it's not really about there possibly being a better candidate, it's about the OP getting a fair crack at the interview - those questions are out of the dark ages!

And as the OP says, she's in a niche field - not many suitable jobs arise.

I would follow 2014newme's advice, discuss options.

If you are going to sue, only do it as an exit strategy, like women seeking big discrimination payouts from investment banks or tech companies. Don't do it on principle to get a trifling amount that can barely cover your legal costs IF you win, and it is a big IF in this situation. It could be by bringing an action, you may never work in this town again.

Agree to concentrate your energies on finding another job that is bigger and better. Jobs are like trains, there is always another one behind. Don't sweat it and do move on.

I agree with the PPs about not proceeding with legal action. You really have no proof, which is why this kind of discrimination is so insidious.

Going forward, in your situation I would remove all mention of maternity leave from your CV and if there are any questions about childcare say your OH manages it due to having a more flexible job. Don't mention his work travel, don't go into details about childcare arrangements. Behave like a man who has a wife who takes care of all that kid stuff.

I'm torn here because on one level I'm a senior manager and i admit someone who has brought grievances does flag because you rarely know the ins and outs and often it does raise the query of whether the person was legitimate or were they a troublemaker and whether it was a cover for not getting the job

On the other hand I'm a single parent to two children under five and i have always ensured that doesn't affect my employer but that i am now in the situation where i am perceived as not being as trusted due to children (i have not once left early or taken time off i have my childcare covered ....I rarely refer to being a mum as i know how it's perceived) it's incredibly frustrating that I'm paying for a very old fashioned perception

So on that note i have an issue with employers who make snap judgements

I do have staff who have children and I'm incredibly accommodating about their childcare but i also have some who do expect special treatment excessively so due to having children and that doesn't help the rest of us it feeds into the belief that mothers are not trusted

I disagree that reference to maternity leave indicated on a CV that you prioritize childcare ......I reference it and frankly i have a stellar CV
But i will say you had a lucky escape because my employer makes my life incredibly difficult on this issue....I'm constantly having to justify (for example i didn't answer an email for 30 minutes that was sent at 8pm as i was putting the children to bed....A fact i did not tell them...I got pulled up on this ..Trust me you don't want to live your life like that !!)

But Bluntness, it's not really about there possibly being a better candidate, it's about the OP getting a fair crack at the interview - those questions are out of the dark ages!

Sure, I agree. But she would need to prove she was the only person asked those questions.. availability to do the job is a fair question, does she know others were not asked them? She can sue and say she was asked them as she was female and men weren't asked and was discriminated against, if she is sure of this', but she can't sue to say it was the reason she didn't get the role as it may have been there was a better candidate.

What is the point in suing just to say the questions were discriminatory if there was a better candidate and she wouldn't have got the role anyway? That's a whole heap of money and time right there, to prove a point and fight the cause, when she has no idea what the others were asked. The men may well have been also asked if they had issues with working anti social hours in the same vein.

The op is assuming if it wasn't for the fact she was a parent she would have got the job. That's a very unstable assumption based on the fact she has no clue who the other candidates were.

Sometimes women don't get jobs because they aren't the best candidate. I think you are definitely jumping to conclusions, but I would follow up with the company by writing to express your concern that they asked about your childcare arrangements in such a blatant fashion. Equally I think an employer should be entitled to know if an employee is likely to be unreliable because they have to take time off to look after kids at short notice. It's a tricky one, but it does sound like there was just a better or more experienced candidate.

Definitely discrimination. I would see a solicitor ASAP. They should not be allowed to ask such questions. I agree with a pp that you should remove maternity leave from your CV.

2017 and employers still treat women like this! GGGrrrrr.

Equally I think an employer should be entitled to know if an employee is likely to be unreliable because they have to take time off to look after kids at short notice

If they ask all the men they are interviewing the same list of in-depth childcare questions then I would agree with you.

If not, it's just old-fashioned ignorant sexism. Leading to, possibly, discrimination. Which is illegal.

I was full time freelance for a year, then I took 9 months off with DC1, then I took a contract which spanned 6 months but it wasn't full time and the last 2 months I really didn't do much. Then I took 18 months off with DC2

On your CV, place emphasis on pre and post DC time as one block of time i.e.

2015 - 2017: freelance contract work

If asked for further info about the contracts at interview give some narrative around the work you did and the experience you gained which benefit the role you are applying for.

You don't need to mention DC! It isn't relevant if you are going for the job, you aren't legally bound to discuss DC, the employer is legally bound to act completely non- discriminatorily in how they interview and recruit staff. That's a fact.

Discrimination and prejudice lives on, all you can do is guard against it and do everything to prevent unscrupulous employers from having the opportunity

www.gov.uk/equality-advisory-support-service

^ for further advice including job application advice (UK Government funded)

I'm an employer. The only member of my staff who has taken time off work at short notice to look after children is a man in his 50s.

But you are right, Syc4moreTrees, maybe I should think more carelly next time I hire and chose a woman instead.

Out of interest, do you know the gender and family status of the person who got the role?

My initial reaction is anger and a tendency towards lawyering up. However PPs have pointed out that you'll struggle to prove it and I guess they're talking sense. Also, if the successful applicant has children and was asked about them, you'd look pretty foolish and word would get around that you'd made a vexatious case.

Not that I think it's vexatious by the way! I'm taking perceptions!

Intransage the problem is we don't know if every man was asked this list of questions, that's why the OP should be asking more questions before assuming she didn't get a job because she is a woman. Sometimes you just do a bad interview.

Of course we don't know Syc4more.

My experience suggests that OP is right, though. Men most likely didn't get asked these questions.

Let's not pretend that the world is equal in this regard. I have never seen a male colleague be asked "who is looking after the baby" when their partner goes back to work after maternity leave, yet I've been asked the question many times. I could go on with similar examples.

This stereotype of woman=primary parent is very real, and not paranoia on OP's behalf. It is disingenuous to claim otherwise.

Of course she cannot know if male candidates were asked the same questions, and any legal action would probably fail as a result. Hence the really nasty nature of this kind of discrimination.

Intransige, I've also never read a man's CV that mentions children. But about 30% of ones written by women do - often for irrelevant reasons. Mentioning then is indicating - consciously or subconsciously - where your priorities lie. I know that children are everyone's top priority, but employees don't want to hear it. Particularly before you've got your foot in the door and proven yourself as a reliable, conscientious employee.

Never, ever put any mention of maternity leave on a CV.

Just as a corollary to this, I do have a male friend who uses a picture of himself with his kids on LinkedIn, deliberately to scare off recruiters for particular roles (ones involving a lot of travel). I don't reckon even he puts the existence of his children on his CV, though.

Certainly yours shouldn't mention periods of maternity leave, OP.

Think you are mad, in a small industry you will be ending your prospects of getting work in this industry for something that will be next to impossible to prove. Interviews are very subjective and they can simply say you didn't do a strong enough one.