Employer has started to lay a guilt trip on me as I'm off with hyperemesis - advice needed

[ejt1764]

I've been signed off by GP for past 7 weeks as I'm suffering with hyperemesis, and am basically unable to move without puking much before midday - and am sick the rest of the day too.

I'm a teacher, and the deputy in charge of staffing phoned me when I was first off, and basically told me that it would be better all round if I got extended sick notes as after I was off for 10 days, an insurance policy kicks in, which pays for my cover. If I go back - even if only for an hour, then the 10 period has to start again. I did as requested, saw my GP, and have been given 2 sick notes, both of which have been for 4 weeks.

My current sick note runs out next Thursday - a couple of weeks back, the deputy in charge of staffing phoned and asked me if I was likely to be back at the end of this note. I told her I hoped so - but she told me that if I was to get another sick note, to ask for a minimum of 2 months, as that way, they can give the person covering my HoD role an allowance.

I really hoped to be going back to work next week - but I really don't think it's going to happen - I'm throwing up pretty much all morning, and sporadically through the afternoon. I'm also having really strong reactions to smells.

Anyway, this morning (at 9.10am), said deputy phoned again, to ask me how I was. I was feeling pretty dreadful, as this is prime puking time for me, but said I was ok to speak, but might have to run.

Anyway, she again asked me if I was intending to come back next week. I told her what I've just explained above, and said that, although I wanted to come back to work, it wasn't looking likely that I would be fit enough. She then went on to lay it on thick that the supply teacher they had got in for me had had to go to be with her family due to a bereavement (fair enough), and that they were struggling without anybody to cover my classes. This went on for about 5 minutes, and I came off the phone feeling like I was being told to get my backside back to work.

Part of me wants to shout that my GP has signed me off (as requested by school!), and that she shouldn't try and second guess my GP.

I've been on and off in tears much of the day: I love my job, and I'm good at it, but at the moment, I'm just not fit enough to do it. I'm afraid that if I go back in next Thursday (as deputy seems to be pushing for), then I won't last the course.

Please help.

I was signed off whilst pregnant with ds1 for two months as I could keep nothing down all day long. So I completely sympathise. I would ring your gp and discuss this position with them. Do you belong to NUT or another union. If you do, get some advice from them. For both you and your baby it's vital that you take things easy. Don't be pressurised into going back to early, stress is not good for you either.

"Part of me wants to shout that my GP has signed me off (as requested by school!), and that she shouldn't try and second guess my GP..."

give in to that part of you?

seriously, if you went in how much work would you actually be able to do? it's not on for you to be hassled so much when you're off sick. don't feel guilty - you're not well and you have a cert - at the request of the school.

must be awful to feel so sick - i hope it passes for you soon and you have an otherwise trouble free pg.

hth and good luck

Have no legal knowledge I'm afraid - just wanted to sypathise as I was hyper-emetic on both my pregnancies and know how spirit-sappingly dreadful it is. I wasn't in a fit state to do ANYTHING until 18-20 weeks pregnant. Maybe the deputy doesn't understand the gravity of the situation - just thinks you have 'ordinary' pregnancy sickness? Is there anyone (partner, husband, colleague) who can be an advocate for you and argue your case more forcefully than you can, given how bad you're feeling? Would the GP talk to her directly?

Citizens' Advice Bureau is always worth a try if you're not sure of your rights.

BTW, have you asked your GP for anti-emetics? I was on cyclazine for ages on both pregnancies. Didn't stop the nausea, but did help to get the vomiting under control. And please keep eating, even though it seems completely counter-intuitive - it's the only way to feel better in the long run.

Thank you for being so lovely - I've been putting off doing this thread all day, as I thought you'd all tell me to get off my backside and back to work.

Compunded by the fact that I have a dating scan tomorrow - and it's at this point that I discovered I'd had my 2nd mc last year. Damn woman knows that too!

oh eek i remember that feeling. hope all is well tomorrow

ej, could it be that the deputy was just having a moan in your direction (insensitive and inappropriate), letting out her frustration with the situation, rather than actually expecting you to come back? Common sense would say that her worst nightmare would be you coming back, finding that you were unable to cope after one day and signing off again, giving them zero notice to get anyone else in. Unless she really hasn't thought that through then I would say she's just having a whinge. Whatever, you are not well enough to go back, full stop, and there is nothing she can do about it, but just put up with the situation. I'm sure you are having a much harder time than she is

Just to add too - I'm pg at the moment and I always find that things upset me more/I get more emotional than I usually do - so a molehill very quickly becomes a mountain. Try to take a step back and look at this rationally - you are doing nothing wrong, she is just having a moan - and try not to dwell on it. It will pass and you will hopefully feel better soon

"she shouldn't try and second guess my GP."
Thing is, nobody can second guess hyperemesis. If it stops then that's a bonus and you can go back when your sign-off runs out, but there's no point trying to plan anything. You need to let go of the idea of going back anytime soon, get another longterm note and try to stay rested.
PS have you tried adding a bit more salt to your diet or deyhydration salts on prescription? I've heard dehydration makes it worse, esp as we're told to eat less salt all the time and lots of people find increasing helps m/s.

Good luck tomorrow. As the techs always told me (in what seemed to be to be an unpleasantly jolly manner), sickness is usually good news.

Thanks Rowan - my rational brain knows that too ... unfortunately, I had sickness (not nearly this bad, but still horrible) with my last pg - which ended in mmc.

Thanks for being so good a sounding board ... my plan is this:

If my scan goes well tomorrow, I'll make an appointment to see my GP on Friday - and go and talk to her about it. I'll ask her to phone and speak to the deputy about things.

What do you think of that idea? I'd ask dh to phone her, as she always reduces me to a quivering wreck when I speak to her, but I don't want her to think I'm hiding behind him.

your plan sounds good ejt, you have to do what is best for you and bump. If you went back to work and something went wrong you would always wonder if that had anything to do with it and never forgive yourself.

I am pretty sure that any pg related sickness cannot be counted in your overall absence record, and cannot be used in any disciplinary against you so this woman hasnt got a leg to stand on if she puts any pressure on you.

Sounds like she is stressed, but that is her job to sort out staffing issues so I have limited sympathy for her.

Oh drear, when this happened to me I photocopied some stuff rom a book- gave that to my Employer. can you print some things from the Blooming Awful website perhaps? Or tell them to look for it? (I think its wwww. hyperemesis.org.uk- cant rememmber, but used to volunteer for it)

I'm sure you realise HG could stop in three minutes from now- or go on until a week after you deliver. I've had calls from women in all these postions and there's no guessing it, tbh.

There's a link gbetween tiredness and nausea, btw- do returning would most likely add to the amount of leave you require

Have a look at that website yourself, btw- most helpful

I got hassled about it when I had it as well
My job was customer facing
I just dragged myself there
I was there 45 minutes when they joyfully let me go home and never questioned it again.

Yes, GP probably better idea than husband. But also, do try to speak to CAB - or get DH to do it for you (they will sometimes do consultations over the phone) - so that you know exactly what your rights are. I suspect your woman doesn't have a leg to stand on (and probably knows it), but would set your mind at rest if you know for sure. You could then just write her a terse letter (but not so terse that you have to hide from her when you go back to work...) - something along the lines of, 'I've obtained all the documentation required by you, I satisfy all the sick leave criteria, I would remind you of the statutory rights accorded to pregnant women, and I will be in touch as soon as I feel able to come back to work and do a good job.' You'll feel better if you don't feel that you're constantly being asked to justify yourself.

Poor you. It is feckin awful. I just used to lie on the sofa, dividing my time evenly between retching and sobbing.

I was signed off work for weeks and weeks with hyper emesis...and was hospitalised fo a week.Its tue that pgy elated sickness cannot be counted as ordinary sick days or held against you at all.

Best of luck - lemonade loolies were my saviour!!!

This makes me really .

What you have is hugely debilitating. People write it off as just a bit of morning sickness. Far far from it. It's awful and you have my sympathy. How you could teach effectively feeling that way is beyond thinking about.

Sorry that's not much help is it?! I just really feel for you - it's taken too lightly sometimes by employers who have either probably never had it or have forgotten how bad it can be. (It'll be engraved on my mind forever)

Hope you feel better soon.

Oh, it's always like this with schools it's so blardy annoying. It's like when teachers are sick we are supposed to develop some psychic power that tells us the exact day we are going to be better and back . In this case as well there is NO WAY you can teach if you're going to be running out of the room every 5 mins leaving 30 children unattended to be sick Also it is a tiring and physically demanding job, as you know you are on your feet most of the time. Really it is impossible for you to got back to work now. I think you should get your gp to phone the head or deputy and explain exactly how debilitating this is.

Hope your scan goes well tomorrow

She's not only unsympathetic, she's wrong to put any pressure on you, and stupid too - if you kept notes of these conversations she'd be putting the school at risk of dealing with a grievance, at least, if not worse. If you are signed off, you are not allowed back to work - their insurance policy wouldn't cover you, for one thing. I'd explain the situation to your GP and agree about printing out some info about hyperemesis, just to get her off your back.

you have my sympathy. I dont want to scare you but I was signed off for hyperemesis for my whole pregnancy as it never went away and I was hospitalised.

DO NOT push yourself to go back to work while you are being sick. I tried that initially and it only made it much worse. You really must do what is best for you and your baby so please please stay home and rest and throw up in peace and quiet. I think your boss is being insensitive at the very least and if you wanted to you could make a complaint. Just be strong and stay off while you are ill!

Thanks all - I had hyperemesis when pg with ds - it lasted up to about 18 weeks, but I had sickness throughout the whole pregnancy. I was working at a different school then, and didn't have to take so much time off - but then they were a lot more flexible in suggesting that I come in late ...

Califrau - I really appreciate you coming on here...

Thanks for the suggestion of printing off info on hyperemesis and sending it in to school. I shall do that.

I'm a bit loath to contact my union - they have never been terribly helpful in the past - they didn't even get back to me when I was having probs with same deputy last year (after 1st mc, she tried to get me on disciplinary for taking some time off). When I had 2nd mc last year, I found the info from working families, and put the fact sheet in her pigeonhole on the day I went back, with a little note suggesting that she shouldn't even braoch the topic of disciplinary.

My rational head knows that what she is doing is wrong. Unfortuantely, she's a truly terrifying woman, and I have never been able to stand up to her face to face (or phone to phone!)

I can't thank you all enough for your help.

theres the site

Thanks Peachy - I've printed off the booklet, and will send it to her at school.

I may come back to you all again, to ask for advice on the letter to write (although if my GP is able to talk to her, should I still send it?)

I would still send the leaflet

Because the most common reason we sent the leaflet to people was to give to their GP! its so rare, many ahven't seen it before (HG)

Don't bother with your local union office - go directly to their legal officer if you need to.

There is significant legislation protecting pregnant women in the workplace - the Health and Safety Executive have loads of information. You can download the (big) pdf from their website.

It is not legal to count pregnancy-related illness in the same way as any other absence.

It is also not legal for an employer to ignore information from a woman's medical carers about her pregnancy. If your pregnancy prevents you from doing your full role, you must either be offered suitable alternative employment (on terms and conditions no less favourable than your own) or be suspended from work on health and safety grounds. The latter is not a disciplinary sanction - it is to protect you and you must receive the pay you would have done at work. If they don't like dealing with what is effectively short term absence certificated by your GP, they will have to deal with long terms absence or redeployment. They would be clinically insane if they did that.

Anyway....aside from all the legal stuff, be kind to yourself. Like many of the people here, I had hyperemsis. For me there was a definite link between tiredness and frequency of vomiting. So trying to battle on is counter productive. Find out as much info as you can about coping strategies and what works (search for threads in this, I know tips have been posted before). Then think about when your worse times are/triggers and then discuss a plan to combat this with the school. Coming in late by agreement or not covering any break periods for example has to be better for them and you. If they are not receptive to helping you manage the situation, if you have to go off, you can assure yourself you have done as much as you can do.

Most people simply have no concept of what it is like - make sure they do.

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