The 'truth' about life as a working mother

[phdlife]

Just wondered what others made of the Equalities Review findings (and especially Madeleine Bunting's G2 feature) published yesterday?
Am I the only woman who finds it hugely depressing to be told (yet again!) that having kids "marks, at best, a plateau in their career - treading water - at worst, its abrupt end"? That "working mothers are left with the worst of both worlds"?
Certainly I was pushed by circumstances into a rather more acute choice than most ppl have to make, but I've coped by hoping that something, somewhere down the line, will work out. Otherwise I can only pray that all my ambition will get squeezed out along with the placenta - a thought that makes me unbearably sad given all the effort I've put in so far. I want the baby and I accept it's going to change things, but I can't envisage being happy to drop out or 'tread water'.
Sorry to be gloomy - this has just raised hairy issues I've been trying to ignore as I don't know any career-oriented women with kids, and frankly I could use a little inspiration rather than yet another reminder of "the brutal truth" [hopeful].

God, I selfishly forgot to mention great partner and adequate childcare as essential prerequisites to all economic activity on my part. What an egocentric bananahead i do be. Sorry!

hmmm. I think I myself might feel slightly at sea if shown a bobble in a test situation...

Yes, but you've got boys Scummy, and most mothers-of-girls would be equally useless in the Yugioh (no idea how to even spell that, see) stakes.

Thinking about it, I am incredibly lucky to work in a small team of three, all of whom have young children (one is a man). We know that it is perfectly acceptable between the three of us to cancel or move meetings because of nativity plays, illnesses, etc. Two of us took on extra teaching responsibilities a few years ago when the other parent's child was very sick. We are very supportive of each other in this way and I think this probably means I have a very rosy view of working in my particular department.

I also, statistically, have a highest number of pregnant or with-young-children postgrads. Comments are frequently made at exam boards about the number of pregnant students I have. I think I attract them! Probably because I am supportive of child-related issues, but am also ruthlessly honest about the impact of children on their careers and their research. I think that if you are seen as a successful working mother you do end up nurturing the next generation and helping them learn from your mistakes.

I'm also in higher education and sometimes feel like I'm on a plateau esp as I work 3 days a week. I was told at my appraisal that senior management posts would not be mine unless I agreed to take them on a FT basis - which I'm not. Will just have to stay where I am and become brilliant . That said, my colleague and I were the first in the university to jobshare and I don't see why we can't be the first to jobshare a senior role too.

Libra, we just appointed two new PhD students who have 2 babies and three toddlers between them. I think it's the first time we've had PhD students in that position actually (as opposed to postdocs) so I'm hoping they cope brilliantly and keep the flag flying

Hopefully not throwing this off as a tangent, but we're another couple where both of us changed working patterns around our first child. I was working 3.5 days per week, DH was working 4 days a week. Now - guess how the terms of employment worked out:

Dh, when asking to go down a day a week was met with the suggestion of "working from home" on that day. The deal being he would be available by phone to his colleagues, and would keep an eye of email. Still on full pay, in fact no changes at all to his terms and conditions.

I had just been given a new job, that was previously done full-time by a man who was a pay grade above me. I had three days in the office and my half day was answering all the emails/phone calls from home for the other 2 days. The 0.5 days pay definitely under-represented the actual amount of time I spent. And of course everything was prorated at a 70% level. When pg with ds2 I opted for a career break, and my successor was a man, a pay grade more senior, who was full time.

I so agree with Jenni Murray, who has written on the fact that current schooling methods may favour girls, but the longterm workplace ethos still favours men!

I think in some quarters, certainly where I work, part-time workers are treated as if they are full-timers who have two full days off sick every week.

But when I was forced to choose my career or my kids, I chose my kids.

I've just remembered that one of DH's postgrads recently told DH that meeting me had made his wife 'a bit more bolshy'. Presumably because I was encouraging her in her plans for a career? DH was suitably horrified at this statement (proud emoticon).

i left my marketing job in american multinational to do my own thing, best move ever.
even though they offered me part time, working part time does mean that you're not "there" a lot of the time, and i empathise with the you have "2 full days off sick a week" mentality! it's not a favour, i'm not paid for them ffs!

not being flexible on those days (due to childcare) made it pretty impossible to do a good job and i wasn't happy just "treading water" holding onto a job until i could commit more time.

however, having said that - many women at the company, with children were doing very well. But - they all worked full time and they all had husbands with less demanding/lower paid jobs, who could take over the childcare when required to travel etc. I wasn't in that position and it became impossible.

and i do think as women/part time/kids etc we are in a "breaking ground" scenario in employment at the moment.

crystal ball: future roles will be more focused on contracting. You bid for particular projects/tasks for set periods at a set rate. Your skill/experience level will affect how long it takes you... you can do it around your children/school holidays etc. I am starting to see that happening already as more and more women become disillusioned with part time pay / childcare costs and decide to stay at home in the early years!

I'm finding being a wohm completley fine, in fact positively enjoyable atm. But this is because:

I've been a sahm and know 100% that I don't want to do it again
I work 9am-5pm atm so am home by 5.30
dh does the same and will turn down the job he's just been offered it they won't budge on it being 40 hours
dh drops and collects one child, I do the other child
dh does 50% (or more) of everything and is as capable of looking after the children as I am, in fact did it alone while I worked away for 6 months
We have a cleaner
I get 35 days holiday
We're in the provinces so although we're paid London salaries we don't seem to be expected to work that hard (I keep being very pleased about this!)

I have quite a good time at work most of the time. I laugh a lot and I like most of the people I work with. I don't find work or home life difficult mostly. Obviously, I have my moments but on the whole I'm happy with being a ft wohm.

But I wouldn't describe what I do as a 'career' - my aim is to earn as much money as possible for the least amount of time and effort possible. The job I do is in an area which isn't my natural milieu so I'm quite often surprised I've got the job I have really. Because of that it's not a 'career' it's a job that pays ok and enables us to have a nice life. Although I think people at work think I view it as a career, I don't, I view it as a means to an end, the end being our nice life. Which I think we have, absolutely.

I've just applied for compressed hours, where I do 35 hours (yep, that's our standard week, which is marvellous) in 4 days and am still paid the same ft salary and still get my 35 days holiday. If I get it it will fit very nicely with my objective as mentioned above! And my childcare costs will decrease by nearly 200quid.

Tamum that is a great story - and yes I'm in academia too. Or was. Held off starting a family while studying my phd (one trauma at a time thank you very much !). It's a long story but essentially at 37 I faced dilemma: leave town in search of work (asking DH to quit and follow me AGAIN), or stay local to his job/study and try for a family. I chose the latter and am now happily 33wks pg, unhappily unemployed.

For long complicated reasons I probably won't look for work for next 15-18mos so not sure what to do meanwhile. It feels like an awfully long time to drop completely out of the loop and I can't help wondering whether I'd stand any chance of getting back in. DH is wonderfully supportive and would love at some point to become the SAHD, but since right now he's supporting us with f/t work as well as studying p/t I'm not sure how much more I can ask the poor man to do at this stage!

I'm hoping that him finishing study in 15mos will coincide with a suitable point for handing over primary care responsibilities (anyone have any experience of this??), but I need some way of keeping my hand in while having no job and no local support network. Have been offered 4hrs/wk as a TA for autumn semester (for the 15th time), but have learned the hard way not to rely on promises from academics (if I could bank those I'd be able to hire a nanny!). Does anyone manage to keep writing with a tiny one? What tricks are there? Or am I exaggerating the risks of a 20-month gap in the CV??

Libra, can you take me on too? (hopeful )

I was a high flying manager heading towards becoming a director when I fell pregnant with my DTS. Knew immediately that I did not want to combine long hours, travelling and stressful deadlines with motherhood so completely changed jobs within the company, reduced to 3 days a week and have not looked back since. Interestingly, my managers value me a great deal and allow me to work from home if DTS are ill.

Having an understanding, forward thinking, flexible employer as well as a DH who does domesticated chores without compunction has been key for maintaining my career.

Also, I am also a NED for a local NHS trust and I am only able to do this because I work part-time. Therefore, going part-time has opened up other avenues that I would not have pursued if I still worked full time (time would not have allowed it).

I think it must be v different if your career is established and then hits the skids - depressing and I don't think very helpful to be told it's going to crash when you've barely even started.

(Speedymama what's a NED?)

Phdlife, I did find it not too hard to carry on writing and publishing with one (well-sleeping) baby. It does depend partly on how restless your baby is though.

I find it harder with 3 small children as there's less spare time.

I think a 20 month gap is OK, but there was a thread about how long you could take off an academic career on here a while back, people who'd left for 5-10 years found it very hard/impossible to get back in.

PhDlife. I agree with Fennel that it is possible to write and have a little baby. IF that is what you want to do. You have to be completely ruthless about focusing on your work, however, and I think it is easier to do with a second child.
I completely wrote up my PhD thesis in the four months after I had DS2. I had my computer open at all times and the second he fell asleep I sat at the table and wrote. I did no house cleaning or cooking or laundry. I just wrote for the hour or so I had before he woke up again. The only word I have for it is 'driven', and probably not in a good way. I read secondary literature while breastfeeding and hounded my supervisor for feedback.
I am not sure that I would do it again, but to be frank I had a full-time lecturing job and knew that my maternity leave was basically the only free time I was likely to get to write up. I was giving conference papers again when he was six months old.
To repeat practically everyone on this thread: you need a very supportive partner. You need to sort out your priorities in your own head. You need to be organised about the things that you have decided matter.

Sorry, NED stands for Non-Executive Director

Thanks Libra (and Fennel).

You've hit the nail on the head: I can and have been that driven in the past, just no longer sure whether there's any point, and articles like Bunting's make it seem like there isn't. I've been doing p/t and short-term contracts on other ppl's courses/projects for a pittance for 10 years now - if having this baby is going to cause career to plateau at this stage, well, who in their right mind would want more of that?? The phrase "cut my losses" springs to mind alarmingly often these days. DH has infinite patience but I'm not sure how much longer I can live with sponging off him!

Still it's good to hear how you managed it and very helpful to hear from women academics who're actually doing it. Might try not thinking about it for a while... (AFTER I finish this one last pre-birth article, that is. Conflicted much, moi?! )

PhDlife. According to the THES there is going to be a massive problem for universities in the next 10 years as all the people taken on to service the first part of the explosion in higher education in the 60s and 70s retire.
I certainly see a lot of (men) in their 50s and 60s at my universities.
The idea is supposed to be that there will be a lot of recruitment happening when they all get their silver watches. I do hope this is right!!

I've heard that too Libra, but I'd sure like a mortgage or at least breathe some life into my pension fund before then, you know?