The 'truth' about life as a working mother

[phdlife]

Just wondered what others made of the Equalities Review findings (and especially Madeleine Bunting's G2 feature) published yesterday?
Am I the only woman who finds it hugely depressing to be told (yet again!) that having kids "marks, at best, a plateau in their career - treading water - at worst, its abrupt end"? That "working mothers are left with the worst of both worlds"?
Certainly I was pushed by circumstances into a rather more acute choice than most ppl have to make, but I've coped by hoping that something, somewhere down the line, will work out. Otherwise I can only pray that all my ambition will get squeezed out along with the placenta - a thought that makes me unbearably sad given all the effort I've put in so far. I want the baby and I accept it's going to change things, but I can't envisage being happy to drop out or 'tread water'.
Sorry to be gloomy - this has just raised hairy issues I've been trying to ignore as I don't know any career-oriented women with kids, and frankly I could use a little inspiration rather than yet another reminder of "the brutal truth" [hopeful].

Exactly - I whilst I can do hassle, I can only do it in one facet of my life ...can't be doing with both employment and 'domestic' challenges

OK, my story in a nutsehll is this. If I sound pleased with myself you'll just have to forgive me- the intention is to dispell some of the gloom, not tell you all how fab I am

Got a lectureship (tenured) originally when I was 27, gave it up to come up here and marry dh. Got a grant with my salary on, and was on this when I had ds (he's now 12). I came back to work in stages from 4 mornings up to 3.5 days a week. When he was 9 months another lectureship came up, amazingly. I got it but said that I wasn't willing to work full-time, but would do 4 days a week. They allowed this because I was the best candidate, but said categorically that I would never be considered for promotion as long as I was part-time. I did this 80% time for 2 years, then had dd. At this point there was a temporary HoD and he let me go down to 3 days a week. Ddd is now 8 and I've been on 3 days a week ever since. I can't pretend that it's all plain sailing- I've pretty much stopped going to international conferences, and I keep my group to around half a dozen, because I don't want them to miss out on attention, but those are really the only compromises I've made. I have been promoted twice, to senior lecturer and now reader. What is most important to me is that there are now several part-time female academics in the department, and they have each said to me that the only reason they felt able to try it was because I was doing it and was perceived to be successful. That pleases me more than anything.

Hi, everyone has made some really great points, i also work in the public sector and find that at a certain level you hit a plateau also, whether you have children or not. I firmly believe that at a particular level you can progress no more until your children are a little bit more independent , someone said it earlier, you need to be prepared to put the hrs in atwork and out of work,,,however in the public sector their is never the financial renumeration for this. So yuo find yourself working your t**s of and not getting any further. This is not only my experience. Persoanlly ,guilt is also a factor as well, i love my job, love my work and love my baby. However I know that when i retire i will not be saying " i really wished i'd spent more time at work"

Tamum, you're fab

Why thenk you

Tamum that's a good tale. We must try not to be too gloomy for phdlife

It is a good tale indeed, but not a typical one I should imagine.

Have to say having ds hasn't changed my own career path - and I dont think it has affected my work's assessment of me, which is based purely on whether I deliver my targets.

I went back to work f/t when ds was 4 months old (only got 4 months maternity leave back then) and never felt guilty. It helped that the cm was next door and I was only 15 minutes from the office.

Dh also worked f/t for the first couple of years and then took a package from his work. he did some other part time work for a further year, before beginning studying for something he was passionate about. This coincided with ds starting part time at nurrsery, so it helped to have someone to pick up ds and get him back to the cm. We'd have coped if dh wasn't working form home, but it meant that we didn't have to ask any favours from family.

Now that ds is as shool (in P2) it really helps that dh is working from home and able to pick the majoity of the choild care. We've got a good out of school club - but it does make my job easier.

We could cope if dh was working f/t outside the home (he is working hard in the home, studying and setting up a business) - and I coped last week while dh was away on a course - but it would have made thing much more complicated and stressful.

I'd also like to drop a day, but can't really at the moment as I am the sole wage earner. While I don't think it would affect my career, I am concnered that I would end up doing the same amount of work (ie including unpaid overitme) but paid 1/5 less.

As others have said, it is aobut sharing the load - and it also helps to work for a company which is flexible aobut people working from home when necessary.

Well, I did already say that being in academia is probably not reflective of life in general, but I thought it might be relevant to phdlife.

Thanks puddle

I think Ormirian makes a good point that if you really want to keep on the career track, sticking to 1 or 2 children is wise.

3 was also a bit of a watershed for me. a nice watershed in many ways, but not a terribly bright career move.

Didn't meant to imply that your experience wasn't a valid one, I am sure it is very relevent to phdlife

Fennel - I think that point is very pertinent!

Unless of course I am reading too much into her username, hmc

That must be very pleasing, tamum.

Another positive story here: My career has developed in every way since I had children, as it happens. Their need for financial sustenance finally brought out my pragmatic side, previously buried deep in a curious mixture of idealism and anti-ambition, which had led to me taking on very fulfilling but low status and low paid roles. I gradually improved my terrible procrastination habit and became a little more organised and able to focus on what I wanted to do and what steps I needed to complete in order to achieve those goals. I am broadly in the same line of work as I was pre kids- social care- which I still love but am now qualified up, have a much greater range and depth of experience and am earning more than ever before. I have found things very flexible in my sector and have worked and studied in various permutations of part time, full time etc. So, all in all, albeit from a low starting point i concede, I've found motherhood a positive boost to my career, I'd say.

um, the trailblazing I meant! Am well behind.

Just dashing in because I must get on with some work (I'm a full-time lawyer). I've always been somewhat in awe of one of the other two full-time WOHM in DD1's class; she is flying very high. But I recently discovered that in the twelve years since her first daughter was born, she and her husband have spent periods both working full-time and full-on, she has stayed at home for couple of years whilst her husband pursued his career and she has worked part-time. It is only in the last few years that her husband has become an SAHD and she has returned to work with real gusto. As she says, there is never one solution and no work/home choice has to be for ever. I found that rather reassuring.

I have to say that it also helps if there are working mothers in the organisation's management.
Another academic here, and I know that myself and a few other working mothers have been supported through our careers in our department by having a dean who is also a working mother. I think it means that she doesn't automatically dismiss us as candidates for promotions, conference attendance, etc.
I also agree that a supportive husband is essential. Since DH is also an academic he understands that things like attendance at international conferences is necessary and so we take it in turns to go. He never assumes it will be me to cancel a class because one of the children is ill - we always work out how many students will be inconvenienced and the smallest class is cancelled. Since one of his classes is a postgraduate medieval latin class (v. v. small numbers) this means that he does more than his fair share of sick children care. However, I am being very supportive and he is off for a month as a visiting fellow at a university in Germany soon, so it really is a question of mutual support.

I'm sure that's useful Libra. None in mine, it's very men in suits, but on the other hand I suppose they're all a bit scared of falling foul of equal opps. I have to say the most intolerant people I've come across are women academics who have made a conscious decision not to have children, because I guess it's then hard to see other people who have made different choices apparently coping. My dh is an academic too, and although he is extremely supportive emotionally he is away so much that he doesn't do a vast amount of daytime childcare. If I book well in advance he helps though, and I too play the "well I've got 240 students at my lecture so you'll just have to stay" card

My situation is very similar to mamhaf's. I have 2 chidren and work full time in a predominantly male environment. I have no role models in my immediate vicinity and in fact any women in my position have given up post chidren (messily in some cases) giving rise to an (unspoken) expectation that any woman in this position who has children is not going to be able to hack it.

ScummyMummy has articulated something that has also happened to me, in that having children has in some ways made me better at my work - its made me better able to delegate, better able to be involved in the strategic issues than getting caught up in the micro -level. Interestingly this has also allowed my team to flourish and people positively want to work in it.

Two key things for me. My DH probably does more than 50% of the household management type stuff and can effortlessly step into any routine at any time (knows all of the names of the DCs friends, knows parents from doing school runs, appreciates the hair-bobble pecking order etc). He partly does this because he enjoys it (a lot - to his great surprise) and partly because he completely agrees that in the same way that my working frees him from the tyranny of being the main breadwinner, he has to accordingly free me from the tyranny of being the one who automatically takes time off for sick children etc.

Secondly, we can afford to pay for absolutely brilliant childcare: I have never had a real qualm leaving the dcs with a nanny because both of the nannies we have had have been so very fantastic. That in its turn has made it much easier to do my job.

Blimey, respect to your dh on the hair bobble front, Anchovy . I have to write "brush dd's hair" on the list of instructions when I go away.

Agree about Scummy's post too, completely, and it's also rather cheering.

Tamum: indeedy - I think it could almost be viewed as the acid test of equal parenting!

Tamum, I agree, female academics with no children can be very unsupportive of 'sisters' with children. Sometimes I feel it's because they made a conscious decision not to have children in order to further their career and then resent it that you didn't make the same choice, but sometimes I think it is because they perceive you as somehow having let the side down by giving in to a domestic urge to have children. (I have done some work in women's history and there have been conferences I have been to where it was obvious that I had let the side down by marrying a MAN.)

My dh is the one who knows the names of all the parents and the other kids. He's also the one who is far more fussy about the cleanliness of the ds' school uniform!

Hmm! DH would fail on the hair-bobble test, but pull through by not giving a t*ss about hair-bobbles and being able to persuade DD1 that she shouldn't either. Hair-bobbles aside, I totally agree Anchovy: I couldn't do my job if DH wasn't happy and able to do more than his share of household management. At least Monday to Friday.

Yes, letting the side down is a good way of putting it, Libra. I used to work in a department of predominantly child-free women and one bloke who did more than his fair share with his toddler-age children, and they were so scathing about him.

Anchovy, it could be like a citizenship test for prospective fathers, show them a bobble and see if they could tell you what it's used for