Capability proceedings against me - should I really welcome this???

[mousiemousie]

I have been trying to improve my relationship with my boss for 9 months and it has been an awful time for me. She is a bully and is constantly insinuating that I am incapable of doing my job but will never say what problems she has with my performance or how I can address them when I ask her. My support has been reduced from a full time experienced and qualified person to half of a temporary inexperienced trainee and this is affecting my ability to meet deadlines but my manager claims that my job is adequately resourced. I am working significant unpaid overtime but still cannot meet deadlines with my current resources.

A director from a different department has advised me that a capability charge now would be in my interests and that I should press for one. Prior to changing boss under a restructure 9 months ago I was very well thought of for the previous 9 years and it is only my line manager who thinks I am lacking in capability now.

I was suprised by this advice but I do need to resolve the problem as fast as I can - it has gone on too long. Is pushing for capability proceedings really sensible? I would also potentially have a bullying case to make but would be reluctant to persue it asI think it is unlikely to help me.

Does anyone have any advice or thoughts? I work for the NHS.

Tbh, if you genuinely feel that you are being bullied by your boss, then I would raise a grievance against her. If you put the details in writing, then your HR department is obliged to follow it up. At the hearing, at least you would be able to ascertain what exactly her problem with you is, and what she believes you need to do to improve your performance.

Thanks detox. I am concerned though that the entire senior management of my department will brand me as a trouble maker if I raise a grievance. On the other hand carrying on the same is simply not an option which will help in any way. I just really don't know what to do for the best!

.

. for the evening crew

Write to her and copy HR asking for an informal meeting to discuss your concerns. Most grievance procedures call for an informal approach in the first instance.

If she ignores you or brushes it off then raise a grievance, it should remain confidential (I would put in the letter that you expect it to!).
The only people who should know about it are your Manager and HR unless they are your accompanying person or a note taker for HR.

I would be happy to read the letter over if you would like.

Ruth

Definitely contact HR and ask for advice.
I assume the other Director is saying that a capability proceeeding would be a way for you to prove your ability....but you shouldn't have to "prove" it like that unless someone is formally suggesting you need to. Coudl be the Dir has the wrong end of the stick though, so ask HR.

FWIW a colleague of mine is in the same sort of situation, we have a bullying, micro-managing yet incompetent boss ( makes for fun times!!) and she has targetted him recently....and we found a quote on a web site that said bullies are usually incompetent people and seek out those more competent than themselves to bully as way of bolstering their own confidence....

Are you in a union? Would suggest they are your first port of call if so. If not, join one - they will advise/take up your case if it gets into disciplinary procedures even if you have only just joined.

i don't know NHS proceedings, but i'd suggest avoiding being put through formal capability proceedings as that puts hte organisation in charge.

1. keep a log/diary of events - comments by boss (when, where, did anyone else witness them? ), series of events about support being reduced, overtime you've worked etc. If you have evidence you're already one step ahead
2. pull all your previous performance docs to reflect your 9 years
3. contact your union if you're a member
4. request a conversation with HR - they will help you negotiate the politics and advise whether you're best off raising a grievance of if there's another informal route you can take to discuss your concerns.

Good luck!

poor you, either way you need to do something for your own sanity,
you should talk to your union rep for some advice and they will possibly suggest agrievance procedure.
the nhs does have appraisal reviews annually, what did yours say? If it brought up areas for work/ improvement try to look at the ways in which you were/werent supported in this, or if nothing was said , you obviously dont have a perfomance issue. tbh in the nhs the onus is ALWAYS on the mgr to work with the staff member to support them to achieve competency, sooooo after all of this, you should feel that its not you , its her!!!!
good luck

Thanks for all the advice, it is so kind of you all to post.

Last night I phoned for an application form to join the union but this takes 2 to 3 weeks and apparently they will not advise me until then.

then I cried for ages as it is hard to see any good solution to all of this right now and I blame myself for being unable to deal with it

I told my boss today in private that her behaviour to me makes me feel intimidated and bullied and I thought that in the interests of solving the problems we have I needed to be open about my feelings with her.

I have requested a meeting with my boss and her boss tomorrow to talk about the lack of resolution and how this is affecting me. However my boss has told me that we will all 3 be working together in this meeting on the work which is now late that I have not finished...I said that is not what the meeting was for! But she says we need to do that work first as it is relevant??? I think I will now have to try to insist that the meeting is about the dysfunctional relationship.

An informal HR chat I had on 'Monday suggested that a capability proceeding against me would be highly unlikely. Before changing managers I had never had performance issues and in fact my performance - in the same job - was highly regarded by everyone including my previous manager who is happy to say so. I was also given extra money 6 months ago to take on new work reporting directly for the person who was at the time my boss's boss, who is now an acting director. This doesn't fit obviously with a capability charge.

I am not optimistic of much action in tomorrow's meeting and I really do need resolution quickly...so if there is none I will seek HR advice about whether to raise a formal grievance. My manager has bullied 4 previous staff into leaving or being pushed but she genuinely believes the problems were completely with them - as they now are with me.

Managers from other departments are encouraging me to make a stand against bullying but my department has a norm of bullying management style - many of the managers bully their staff so they see it as acceptable and normal behaviour and don't recognise it as bullying. This does seem to be noticed and recognised by many outside our department however.

M. you are so brave,, if this poor excuse for a mgr is insisting on changing the foucus of the meeting, perhaps yuo should take a collegue with you as you cant take a union rep. I also think you should email you and her boss to insist that the previous meeting format go ahead,as planned, infact ensure that all these conversations are re-iterated in e-mail or writing that way you will have evidence of her beahaviour..
eg i am disapointed that the focus of this meeting has been changed from...... to...... , i am happy to discuss both issues, however i feel that x is more important than y at this time

she is trying to cover her arse by trying to intimidate you by critising your work in front of another mgr,,,
best of luck

Contact ACAS they should willingly give you advice. They did for my husband over certain issues. Personally I think you're handling it all brilliantly and I second what robbosmum has said about your manager trying to cover herself.

mousie - wishing you lots of luck with whatever you decide to do. It makes me sooo mad that there are managers out there who think this kind of behaviour is ok, and get away with it.

I hope that things sort themselves out for you, but please do not be put off making a formal grievance, as it sounds like this manager needs to be shown that this kind of bullying is unacceptable. HR are there to support you and make sure that the complaint is taken seriously and things improve for you. I suggest keeping a diary of the incidences as they happen, as well as any witnesses to them. Loads of luck.

Please, raise a formal grievance. Find out the process you have to follow and stick with it. A culture of bullying should NOT be seen as normal - it isn't. It demoralises staff, affects productivity/performance, causes absences etc.

With regards to performance, if a company thinks you are under performing, they can go down the capability route with regards to disciplinary proceedings however they should insitigate if they feel there is an issue. Its not something you should ask for.

It should be raised with you initially. They should give you adequate explanation of what aspects of the job are not being done properly and look at setting a performance improvement plan with realistic targets and strict timescales, all linked to regular reviews. Initial action would be to establish what can be done, like do you need training, more support etc. You have to be given every opportunity (as well as resources) to meet the required standards. If you are unable or unwilling to, then they can go down the disciplinary route - this would be a gradual process, again with time to make improvements before next stage action being taken.

From what you have said there are valid reasons regarding the issues such as your support being reduced. This must be adressed otherwise they will have a weak case against you.

the bullying must be dealt with and if it was my company I would deal wiht that as a priority rather than starting a performance program. All the suggestions about logging everything are excellent, you need as much detailed evidence as possible

Thanks again to all of you for your help and support, you are all so generous with your advice and it is helping me to see things more clearly. I have been logging details as much as possible - every day for the last few weeks. But I don't have complete logs of stuff from months ago.

I have just looked on the ACAS site about bullying and one example they give is "deliberately undermining a competent worker by overloading and constant criticism" which is what is happening to me. I am now thinking I really should speak to HR tomorrow as a priority. I am concerned though that unless I hold fire for 2 or 3 weeks I will not be able to have union representation as it will take that long to join. Should I stall until then? The situation is affecting my health although I have not taken any time off so far - in fact the opposite, I have been doing lots of unpaid extra time. A friend suggested I get signed off by the doctor to give me time to wait for the union but I feel reluctant to do this unless I have completely fallen apart - and I would say I am only 85 or 90% there as yet!

Don't stall it just to wait for the union. You need to start the ball rolling at least. You could always ask to defer any formal meetings until your union rep is available. That would be a reasonable request.

Don't just get signed off as that won't solve the issue at work. If you are very ill then by all means see your GP and take advice. Certainly knock the extra hours on the head and try to make it as un demanding as possible

it needed be union rep..you could invite a collegue along, as for the unpaid overtime , pah, ensure you are writing it all down, what you do and how long you stay etc...m i am so infuruated for you...you are being wonderful . IT IS NOT YOU repeat 10 times.. she is insecure, unprofessional, and you are standiong up to her every time you say , hang on , i am good at my job!!!!

is there any chance of you moving depts? Before mners hang me , its not defeatist, its the nhs culture of mgrs sticking together
good luck, were all thinking good thoughts for you today

That sounds like good advice. Unfortunately I am currently failing to deliver more and more, as balls are inevitable dropped because my workload is so unmanageable - so not only is the pressure high but blame is now being put onto me by those outside my department who are not getting their work done on time - this is unhelpful and undermining and I think it might be better not to be there than to keep getting my reputation damaged as I am constantly set up to fail.

I will try to see HR this morning but I am now dreading the 3 way meeting as my boss seems to have seized control of it andIamnot confident I can get the control back - it was supposed to be my meeting but looks as though it's going to be hijacked and used to undermine me even more!
mousie x

robbosmum - cross posted!
thank you, and I have now said I would be happy to transfer - tbh I think that may be the best result, however unless I stand up for myself 2 of the 3 potential bosses I may move to are also bullying their staff so it feels like out of the frying pan into the fire!

These 3 bosses all reinforce each others view that they are not bullies and that their behaviour is normal, this is part of the problem and why I now feel I need to take a stand however hard that might be and even if the results aren't that great for me. Not doing anything seems the worst option of the bunch.

It sounds stupid but you are all helping me feel human again and helping me to get back some self esteem. Thanks xxx

BTW I am worried about asking colleagues to help me in any meetings as whilst I have a huge amount of sympathy and support from a lot of people I don't want them to get in trouble with the management and wreck their own careers so I don't feel I can ask them to help me!

no advice to offer you but just want to wish you good luck,be strong.

thanks bubbles

Hi

You probably know this but...
If someone accompanies you (assuming you are not in a Union so can't take your Union rep) they are there as your witness and to ensure that you do not feel any more "ganged up on" than you already are. They do not ask or answer any questions, they do not get to put any views accross so essentially they are not involved but I can see your point.
Perhaps there is another working Mum or more mature sensible Lady who you might feel happy asking, my Mum is always getting asked to do this by the guys at work as they know she is v discrete (sp?) and - more importantly - not afraid of her Boss!

HTH and Good Luck!

lordy lordy m,
this is typical nhs culture, as you know, the caring side of it is anything but.

xxx

Well my HR person was off today so I decided to wait for her to come back rather than start up with a new person...

"My" meeting left me feeling more ganged up on than I had expected ... my boss and her boss insisted on their own joint agenda for the meeting. I asked them if they think I have performance issues - they were extremely reluctant to answer this directly but I pushed them and my boss decided to say that she had; her boss seemed to concur that there were as I had not hit a recent deadline and she was not convinced that this had been due to inadequate resources as I had claimed. I pressed for a list of what they think these performance issues are and for us to reach agreed action points with appropriate support - but I could not get this from them. I asked if I could have daily targets and reviews to identify and work on problems with my manager but they said this would be inappropriate at my level (although I am not particularly senior, currently I have 0.5WTE members of staff who report to me since this has been axed from 1.0 WTE). At the end of the meeting my boss's boss asked why I looked so unhappy. I said because there was only 1 action point agreed and that the only possible resolution I could see as this meeting had failed to identify a clear way forward was that I find another job. A few tears rolled down my cheeks at this point. I said I had been clear at the start of the meeting that I urgently needed a fast resolution and that my feelings of being bullied had not been dealt with as a priority.

I feel I definitely need to speak to HR and need to start grievance proceedings - as an informal solution looks less and less possible. If it comes to it I will not be pushed out of my job I will stand up for myself and for the others my boss has bullied into leaving in the past and will bully in the future. I will do my best to call everyone to account who should be called and if it ends up with law suits and front page news about nhs bullying I will feel proud of myself. If I never work in the nhs again so be it. I think I have a potential equal ops case too as I am a part time worker; a relative of mine works for equal ops so she may be able to help me.

I am very worried that my family needs my income, I will find it extremely difficult to find another job on the same salary and with part time hours that fit in with wanting to pick dd up from school myself. This could mean my relationship with dp fails as this is wobbly anyway, and could mean I move back with my mum for a bit and dd has to move schools...so the potential ramifications seems immense and terrifying right now.

Good can come from change though and fighting for a good cause than benefits more widely than just for me seems something I feel able to do and seems the only real course of action.

Any wise mumsnetter words warmly welcomed, you have all been so kind and generous with your words, sometimes mumsnet is utterly life affirming and humbling - thank you all.