FUCK. Flexi working rejected

[Sleepybeanbump]

HUGELY long, sorry, but don't wan to drip feed.

Background.
Been on Mat leave since last December. Return date is 14 Dec this year or if I used all accrued leave 31 Jan 2017. I have previously said I would like to do the latter.
I told my line manager informally before I went on Mat leave that I envisaged returning 3 days a week. She was very supportive (obv I know this isn't binding, just giving background) and said she would do everything she could to make it happen.

Around May I had a call with my line manager and head of department for them to talk to me about pay review. I used the call to tell them that I had been investigating childcare and I still wanted to return 3 days a week and I would like to get discussions going as nursery places would be offered in August/September for a December start, and I would need to have my working arrangements firmed up by then. They went away to ask HR about the process and came back to say no can until October/November. I explained that I wouldn't be able to leave childcare arrangements at that late stage and they shrugged. Ok I said I'll just have to hedge my bets and do this in the dark.

I find a childminder I'm happy with who has 3 days available and I sign up with her. I'm also on nursery waiting lists for 5 days and have been since before baby was born.

Fast forward to October and I realise thanks to a friend that technically I need to give my notice to return by the end of the month. I email HR to remind them of this and ask if they're willing to open discussion. They send me the flexible working form. I ask them what I do about giving notice given we haven't agreed my conditions and they say it doesn't matter about giving notice in time.

I fill in the form on a 3 day a week basis (the form only allows one option) but while filling it in informally run some other ideas of out of hours working past my manager which get shot down immediately. So the form gets submitted on a 3 day a week basis with my hours changing from 9.30-5.30 to 9-5, and a request for at least one day from home. After informal discussion with my manager to check what has changed/not changed in the last year re workload I suggest that a job share would be a good way of mitigating impact.

First week of Nov I'm invited in for a meeting to discuss the form. We have a very productive and rambling conversation with is less about the form and more a discussion from scratch about my situation, wants, needs, ideals, and theirs, and some brainstorming of different options. What comes out of the meeting is that there are various options. All seems promising. Atmosphere very friendly.

Yesterday I had a call. Every single option we discussed a non starter. My request rejected. Best offer is 5 full days one from home (no mention of exact hours, I realise this morning so will have to clarify that.) I'm given til next week to go away and reflect.

Now the dust has settled I have a number of concerns:
-Is there any legality around the length of time I have to make my decision? They've just scheduled a call for Monday (and they have made it very clear they expect me to resign then.)
They haven't mentioned giving me the rejection in writing or mentioned appeal process. Can they make me give my answer without giving me that info? Online reading suggests that's best practice but not required.
-What's my situation re giving notice to quit? When's the latest I have to do it? Can I refuse to say either way on Monday?

Can't find these answers on ACAS etc.

I also realised this morning once the shock had worn off they hadn't mentioned the specific hours I would need to work ie if a) they would accept the 9-5 request for 5 days , or b) if there's room for further flexibility ie different hours on different days so can share pick up and drop off with husband (I haven't asked for clarification yet, want to gather self before communicating with them).

There's no way at this stage I can make 5 days a week work as we're so close to my return date. (Exactly why I wanted to discuss it earlier!) My husband would need to submit his own flexible work request on this basis, and I'd have to start from scratch re childcare. While I was filling in the form we were refused one nursery place and have just been told we've been refused another as the waiting list still too long.

To work out whether 5 days is even vaguely viable my husband will need to make a new flexi working request himself (he already does some). We couldn't do this until now as no idea what we might need to ask for. But because they've left this so late we don't have enough time really to get anything else in place. Ditto arranging childcare and settling in- I'd need a nanny share (all we can afford) in place and read to actually start by New Year. Vanishingly unlikely now. Again- couldn't recruit for that before until we had the answer! So feel in an impossible situation. And I CERTAINLY can't establish whether all this is viable or not by next Monday!

Also to make the 5 days work I would need flexi hours, different on different days to share pick up and drop off with husband. That would mean a new request and online reading suggests only one allowed in 12 months!!!??? Additionally if I have to work 5 days I will want to keep my accrued leave to use later so would actually want to go back in December!

I've had max 4 hours sleep for weeks, been ill on and off for a month and just totally reeling from the shock of this. Was so sure something would work out and now they're acting like it's just done and dusted. Manager was all 'oh do keep the door open, hopefully we can work together in the future, you'll be the first person I call if something comes up' and I haven't even quit yet! It's like they just want this over ASAP so they can get on and find some nice easy (dare I say childless) replacement. We've been very close for 8 years (genuine friends) so massively weird. I was at her wedding, she cried with happiness when I told her I was pregnant. Two weeks ago ago she was hugging me and telling me repeatedly how much she missed me. Now she doesn't seem to care much which makes a bad situation even worse.

Any advice appreciated. Annoyingly there's a chance if I do quit that contract work will come my way from them next year so I need to be nice. Otherwise I'd just tell them to stick their bloody job up up their arses. I'm certain I will end up having to quit (fundamentally I don't want to be away from DS that long anyway) but so uncertain what to do now and feel like they just haven't played this fair. The irony is its a massive law firm who started this whole 'we're so committed to flexi working' campaign last year!

Finally as best as I can remember from the phone call the reasons for rejecting everything are:
-Part time rejected as job is full time (how does anyone ever get it approved by that argument ?!)
-Home working not offered as much as I wanted- no reason given. In meeting head of department made disgruntled noises about needing to be client focussed. She works 4 days a week 2 from home ffs!!
-Job share rejected because it will be too hard to find someone (how much do they have to try?), plus something about there being no hand over day presumably because they'd only be willing to pay for a job share for 2 days not 3, and lots of waffle about loss of knowledge in handover process and the work not being suitable even though for years colleagues and I have often shared pieces of work very effectively (I've told them this).
-Change to start and finish hours- not addressed.

Sorry again for length. Don't want to drip feed. Thanks to anyone who reads.

OP, you are taking this way too personally. You have said yourself that it is a specialist type of role that is difficult to recruit for and that agencies have told you that part-time jobs don't come up often (if at all). You've asked for only 2 days in the office when it's likely that you are more customer-facing than your head of department.

A handover day would incur extra costs for the firm and they'd have to fit two members of staff in on the same day for a face to face handover.

I understand your frustration (and 6 weeks before the end of maternity leave, even if you are not returning by using holidays until January, is the prime wobble time for mat leave returners IME) but I would take a step back before Monday and reconsider. You seem to equate your boss being a close friend with her being able to magically change your working environment which is a bit unfair.

So you should offer 4 days and get your DH to change his request to cover the other day so your ds only has three days as you planned.

This thread is hugely helpful for me to get clarity. I'm really struggling at the moment to think clearly. I will try to aim for this solution I think. However I highly doubt DH will be able to arrive at a 4 day week.

Someone said they were surprised DH hasn't submitted his request earlier. What on earth would we have asked for? What we need varied so much depending on my work's answer.

You seem to equate your boss being a close friend with her being able to magically change your working environment which is a bit unfair.

Absolutely not. I don't doubt she's fielding a lot of pressure on this. And I get that there are issues, although I think they're also refusing to see solutions and dismissing a lot of options for very tenuous reasons.

What I AM hurt and surprised by though is the way both on the phone and email she's talking like its a done deal (I hope we can work together again some time- when I haven't resigned yet) and also expressed absolutely no regret or sympathy. It's extremely odd given our relationship and history.

I'm also very frustrated because it's so last minute- entirely there fault. I wouldn't be nearly so resentful of this had been happening in Seprember.

Their

On the homeworking I meant your offer to your work to wfh in the early evenings.

People (unfortunately) often have to change childcare arrangements for all sorts of reasons. Not ideal, but DC adapt.

You could propose 4 days to work, do the CM as planned for three days and get a different CM/nanny on Fridays - often their quietest day.

Your boss shouldn't have given you the impression it'd be OK, but not much you can do about that.

On the financial thing, remember that childcare is paid from family income, not just yours, and to factor in the medium and long term into your costings, eg if you keep your job you get pension, security (relative to having to seek work).

Oh dear. If I didn't earn as much as a nanny I wouldn't go back either.

That's rubbish, poor you

Change career, if there's so little childcare in your area offer yourself as a nanny with child You'll earn more and your dc will be with you

Alternatives: leave and do the contract work when it comes up? Can you manage without your salary?

Yes we can manage without my salary. Short to medium term it makes no difference to family finances as we'd have paid my salary in childcare. However we would have shared it and I would have had my own income (DH will be perfectly nice about giving me money but it's not the same) plus also pension and medical insurance.
We do have the option of moving somewhere cheaper to reduce mortgage cost. We have a good amount of equity in the house.

I'm tempted to wait and see what happens re contract work. In theory it could work perfectly- bit more time off with DS then some very part time working. Lovely. I have a friend planning to do exact same. But will it transpire? It's a risk.
But then a 5 day week with the lack of flexibility, the lack of support the workload, the commute, and childcare issues...that's a risk to our sanity I think. I'm barely functioning from the nights being so bad as it is. DH is already working in the evenings, early mornings and being on call pretty much permanently.
Given my salary it's a VERY long game. It'll be all stress and no tangible gain for years. I know a lot of people do it. I just don't know if I want to. All year I've been adamant 3 days was my limit. I wanted quality of life. I wanted to see a lot of DS. I would quit beyond doubt. It's just now its staring me in the face and people are telling me not to that I'm doubting myself.

What I AM hurt and surprised by though is the way both on the phone and email she's talking like its a done deal

I was vv blunt,. and this time is HORRIBLE as you end maternity leave and face the office. I can be blunt and easily pragmatic, as its 8 years ago for me

so this boss, she aint your friend. She is your boss. its work, it's money.

You will be fine, but a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Think of your pension, your CV and your future not your upset

I think you assumed you would get the same, and for some reason you have not. and unfortunately, that's the way it rolls.

take a step back, stay calm and professional

let them know that given the fact that you cant work as requested that you are evaluating the childcare options available, and gently question why she is fucking acting like you have resigned, what a cxxt!

Good luck you will be fine, it will get sorted - I wish it didn't have to be so nasty and sadly, it always is

I have found that there is very little contract work around. Lots of firms now set up to offer it but all have a large number of lawyers signed up, some of whom will work for very little.

Was she talking as your boss or your "friend" She might even have been saying what she thought you wanted to hear. Tbh it sounds as if you don't want to go back yet, whatever the working pattern, and this frustration is confirming it. Your sleepless nights will impact as much on 3 days as 5. Would you be able to take a career break to buy you more time, if they have such a policy? There is no commitment on either side but it might offer you some sense of security and freeze entitlements to accrued leave, ml, pension etc. They get to potentially keep your expertise longer term. Would you have to repay any enhanced maternity pay if you don't go back ft?

If you can afford not to work and you don't want to work more than three days, walk away. It sounds like you've made this really clear to your boss and she's trying to let you know that she understands they've put you in this position and you'll leave with no hard feelings. You're annoyed that she's reacted like that when you haven't made your mind up but to be honest, it sounds like you'd be angry however she responded. You have made your mind up, really, and if she was putting pressure on you to stay, you'd be angry too.

Dropping from five days a week in the office pre-pregnancy to two days in the office and one at home was always going to be a big ask when your industry doesn't really have part time workers. Four days with one at home might work but as you've said, that'd be five days condensed into four which could be stressful. None of the add ons that you've offered are really valuable, to be honest, they are add ons. They might bridge a narrow gap between wants but you're no where near aligned. There's a chasm between you.

I can appreciate your frustration but some of it is unreasonable. My work wouldn't have discussed this with you earlier in the year either, they follow tight guidelines on not intruding on the enjoyment of maternity leave and arranging things just prior to return. It's incredibly frustrating but it's seen as best practise not to risk putting pressure on people to make arrangements or make them think about work whilst they are off. They may well have had good intentions with that; especially as they knew you wanted three days and probably knew they couldn't make that work.

Can you take the day off from thinking about this and review tomorrow? Ideally you need some of the frustration and emotion to dissipate so you can decide your next steps. Then you've got the weekend to sit with your decision and you can give it on Monday knowing you've thought about it enough and it's the right thing for you.

Thing is OP if you quit, all the economic risk is on you, possibly affecting your earnings for many years. As PPs have said it's easier to get PT or flexible work - or any work, eg a different job / sideways move - when you're in employment.

As for your H, he became a parent too, so his working life will likely need to change too, if you both want or need to work.

I might have missed someone else saying this, but the organisation will need to have given you clear reasons for the rejection of your request that can only be linked to the following 8 reasons:

1. Burden of extra costs
2. Inability to organise work among existing staff
3. Inability to recruit extra staff
4. Detrimental impact on quality
5. Detrimental impact on performance
6. Detrimental effect on ability to meet customer demand
7. Insufficient work for the periods the employee wants to work
8. Planned structural change to the business.

It is not enough for your employer to assert one of these reasons, instead they have to investigate whether the request can be accommodated, including listening to your views.

Acas code says that if the request is rejected the employer has to allow an appeal. It also recommends that an employee should trial the proposed pattern for a short period before making a final decision on whether to reject the request, is this something they would be willing to do?

The relevant section of employment law for you to look at is 80F - 80I, ERA 96, as amended by sections 103-106 CFA 14.

Ultimately your employer doesn't have to grant your request but would be expected to have considered to fully and the reasons for rejection to be one of three eight above. If this isn't the case then next step is appeal; if that does not succeed then a grievance based on a verbal agreement being withdrawn and the business not following the ACAS code of practice or relevant employment law. Good luck with it all.

This is not just your problem to sort out.

You say you 'highly doubt' that your DH could get a 4-day week., Well, he has as much chance as you do, and as much parental responsibility. He needs to put the same effort into trying to get it.

I understand people saying 3 days is a big ask. Obviously you go in with your biggest ask and expect to negotiate down. But they've refused to meet even part way.

I've just had an email this morning re the clarity on hours. They're not prepared to offer any flexibility. Despite the new hire they've made this year doing variable hours on different days. But because they've already given her that they say they don't have capacity to let me do so.
It's 9.30-5.30 or nothing. I asked for 9-5 and also offered to offer later cover from home to more than compensate.

And there's absolutely no good reason why I can't do 2 days from home very easily. I'm no more customer facing than my boss who does same and in fact my workload involves a lot more heads down solitary working than hers. I'd just need to plan my week a bit. And she attends far more meetings than me, which all have to be arranged for days she's in. It's annoying at times but fine. But she's the one being particularly negative about my request.

LIZS I don't really understand why you're so adamant I don't want to go back. Believe me, the way I'm feeling right now is not a person who is looking for an excuse to quit. I'm talking to DH and wondering about options which I've always said were way beyond the limit of what I'd be prepared to do.
But I don't have the brain space to argue any more with someone who doesn't know me who seems to have a strange insistence they know my subconscious. So let's just agree to differ.

I don't think they are interested in meeting you part way. They don't want to negotiate. They want you to return 9:30 to 5:30 five days a week - you may be able to suggest some alternatives, such as doing one day a week at home with the guarantee that you won't also be doing childcare, and then getting DH to do a day at home, but any significant changes are off the table.

I do feel for you. It seems you really expected them to come through for three days and one at home, and whatever the best practice guidelines say, it's worsened the situation that they didn't clarify earlier that this wouldn't happen. Now you've got to start again and redo the whole plan.

Break it down. If you have to work 9:30 to 5:30 every day, can you do that? (I know you'd rather not, but is it possible?). If it's not, it's game over. If it is, would you do five days condensed into four, or five days with one at home? And so on.

Unfortunately you've been very badly advised regarding your request. You don't go in with your best case from your perspective and negotiate down. You go in with the offer which you think will work. Once you've made a request and it's been rejected then you have no right to make another request for 12 months. Your amended request constitutes a further request.

*I might have missed someone else saying this, but the organisation will need to have given you clear reasons for the rejection of your request that can only be linked to the following 8 reasons:

1. Burden of extra costs
2. Inability to organise work among existing staff
3. Inability to recruit extra staff
4. Detrimental impact on quality
5. Detrimental impact on performance
6. Detrimental effect on ability to meet customer demand
7. Insufficient work for the periods the employee wants to work
8. Planned structural change to the business.

It is not enough for your employer to assert one of these reasons, instead they have to investigate whether the request can be accommodated, including listening to your views. *

^ This is a bit misleading. The test is subjective on the part of the employer. It only had to show that it believed that one of the reasons applied. The OP is a solicitor working a niche field. The employer could use 1,2,3,4,5 or 6 very easily.

My bold didn't work there. The bit in * * was a quote from a PP

We do understand how hard it is: many of us have been through difficult returns to work. And law is known for treating women with DC badly. I know several former lawyers who left over reasons like this.

It does seem really unfair, but it's reality, so you have difficult decisions to make.

In your shoes I would appeal the decision and suggest 4 days, sort out childcare and go back on their terms because of the medium/long term financial and career implications, continue to press for flexibility and mull over your career options from a position of having a job/paycheck.

Think you mentioned upthread that you're bf: bf in the night and working was too hard for me so I stopped feeding in the night (Dr Jay Gordon method). DD still didn't sleep well but I was less dehydrated for the commute!

I'm not a solicitor.

Atticus- I get your point. I didn't quite mean it from a pure play hardball perspective. The reality is more complicated. A) 3 days never had an eyelid batted when I scoped it out b) I know my job and others on similar positions well enough to know that a request for 4 days would mean just doing a compressed week with less pay. C) i maintain that the best solution would be a job share and obv 4-1 split is a lot less likely than 3-2. D) personally 3 says is also me ideal emotionally. So I went in with 3, thinking I might very possibly consider 4 with seeeerious flexibility on hours if that worked better for them. I suggested such options in the meeting and they seemed interested. My only pure 'negotiate down' from here tactic was two days from home expecting to come out with one. That's worked (except they're offering one of five not one of three!).

This thing about one request- they started off treating it as a two way brainstorm, not just based on form, so no problem there. They're rejecting ideas now that we discussed in the meeting that weren't on my form.

Someone said they were surprised DH hasn't submitted his request earlier. What on earth would we have asked for? What we need varied so much depending on my work's answer.

That was me. What i meant was, i was surprised you, as a couple, wernt planning to share the flexible working anyway, in some configuration. As has been said, he is as much a parent as you, and has as much chance of a 4 day week as you do. As for him being "perfectly nice about giving you money" he wouldn't be giving you money.
A large chunk of your combined income would go on a childminder. The remainder belongs to you both.
You take the hit as a family, surely?

Don't forget your mat cover has now got her feet under the table. A year us a long time. She's made friends, possibly asking if it's going to be made perm. Boss wants her buy in and doesn't want her to get something else, so makes noises that it possibly will be perm.

Go back. See the mat cover leave. Then you are in so much of a stronger position. Then negotiate.