FUCK. Flexi working rejected

[Sleepybeanbump]

HUGELY long, sorry, but don't wan to drip feed.

Background.
Been on Mat leave since last December. Return date is 14 Dec this year or if I used all accrued leave 31 Jan 2017. I have previously said I would like to do the latter.
I told my line manager informally before I went on Mat leave that I envisaged returning 3 days a week. She was very supportive (obv I know this isn't binding, just giving background) and said she would do everything she could to make it happen.

Around May I had a call with my line manager and head of department for them to talk to me about pay review. I used the call to tell them that I had been investigating childcare and I still wanted to return 3 days a week and I would like to get discussions going as nursery places would be offered in August/September for a December start, and I would need to have my working arrangements firmed up by then. They went away to ask HR about the process and came back to say no can until October/November. I explained that I wouldn't be able to leave childcare arrangements at that late stage and they shrugged. Ok I said I'll just have to hedge my bets and do this in the dark.

I find a childminder I'm happy with who has 3 days available and I sign up with her. I'm also on nursery waiting lists for 5 days and have been since before baby was born.

Fast forward to October and I realise thanks to a friend that technically I need to give my notice to return by the end of the month. I email HR to remind them of this and ask if they're willing to open discussion. They send me the flexible working form. I ask them what I do about giving notice given we haven't agreed my conditions and they say it doesn't matter about giving notice in time.

I fill in the form on a 3 day a week basis (the form only allows one option) but while filling it in informally run some other ideas of out of hours working past my manager which get shot down immediately. So the form gets submitted on a 3 day a week basis with my hours changing from 9.30-5.30 to 9-5, and a request for at least one day from home. After informal discussion with my manager to check what has changed/not changed in the last year re workload I suggest that a job share would be a good way of mitigating impact.

First week of Nov I'm invited in for a meeting to discuss the form. We have a very productive and rambling conversation with is less about the form and more a discussion from scratch about my situation, wants, needs, ideals, and theirs, and some brainstorming of different options. What comes out of the meeting is that there are various options. All seems promising. Atmosphere very friendly.

Yesterday I had a call. Every single option we discussed a non starter. My request rejected. Best offer is 5 full days one from home (no mention of exact hours, I realise this morning so will have to clarify that.) I'm given til next week to go away and reflect.

Now the dust has settled I have a number of concerns:
-Is there any legality around the length of time I have to make my decision? They've just scheduled a call for Monday (and they have made it very clear they expect me to resign then.)
They haven't mentioned giving me the rejection in writing or mentioned appeal process. Can they make me give my answer without giving me that info? Online reading suggests that's best practice but not required.
-What's my situation re giving notice to quit? When's the latest I have to do it? Can I refuse to say either way on Monday?

Can't find these answers on ACAS etc.

I also realised this morning once the shock had worn off they hadn't mentioned the specific hours I would need to work ie if a) they would accept the 9-5 request for 5 days , or b) if there's room for further flexibility ie different hours on different days so can share pick up and drop off with husband (I haven't asked for clarification yet, want to gather self before communicating with them).

There's no way at this stage I can make 5 days a week work as we're so close to my return date. (Exactly why I wanted to discuss it earlier!) My husband would need to submit his own flexible work request on this basis, and I'd have to start from scratch re childcare. While I was filling in the form we were refused one nursery place and have just been told we've been refused another as the waiting list still too long.

To work out whether 5 days is even vaguely viable my husband will need to make a new flexi working request himself (he already does some). We couldn't do this until now as no idea what we might need to ask for. But because they've left this so late we don't have enough time really to get anything else in place. Ditto arranging childcare and settling in- I'd need a nanny share (all we can afford) in place and read to actually start by New Year. Vanishingly unlikely now. Again- couldn't recruit for that before until we had the answer! So feel in an impossible situation. And I CERTAINLY can't establish whether all this is viable or not by next Monday!

Also to make the 5 days work I would need flexi hours, different on different days to share pick up and drop off with husband. That would mean a new request and online reading suggests only one allowed in 12 months!!!??? Additionally if I have to work 5 days I will want to keep my accrued leave to use later so would actually want to go back in December!

I've had max 4 hours sleep for weeks, been ill on and off for a month and just totally reeling from the shock of this. Was so sure something would work out and now they're acting like it's just done and dusted. Manager was all 'oh do keep the door open, hopefully we can work together in the future, you'll be the first person I call if something comes up' and I haven't even quit yet! It's like they just want this over ASAP so they can get on and find some nice easy (dare I say childless) replacement. We've been very close for 8 years (genuine friends) so massively weird. I was at her wedding, she cried with happiness when I told her I was pregnant. Two weeks ago ago she was hugging me and telling me repeatedly how much she missed me. Now she doesn't seem to care much which makes a bad situation even worse.

Any advice appreciated. Annoyingly there's a chance if I do quit that contract work will come my way from them next year so I need to be nice. Otherwise I'd just tell them to stick their bloody job up up their arses. I'm certain I will end up having to quit (fundamentally I don't want to be away from DS that long anyway) but so uncertain what to do now and feel like they just haven't played this fair. The irony is its a massive law firm who started this whole 'we're so committed to flexi working' campaign last year!

Finally as best as I can remember from the phone call the reasons for rejecting everything are:
-Part time rejected as job is full time (how does anyone ever get it approved by that argument ?!)
-Home working not offered as much as I wanted- no reason given. In meeting head of department made disgruntled noises about needing to be client focussed. She works 4 days a week 2 from home ffs!!
-Job share rejected because it will be too hard to find someone (how much do they have to try?), plus something about there being no hand over day presumably because they'd only be willing to pay for a job share for 2 days not 3, and lots of waffle about loss of knowledge in handover process and the work not being suitable even though for years colleagues and I have often shared pieces of work very effectively (I've told them this).
-Change to start and finish hours- not addressed.

Sorry again for length. Don't want to drip feed. Thanks to anyone who reads.

OK, I'm an employment lawyer (you may well be one too).

Leaving aside all the stuff about you making arrangements based on an assumption which was perhaps a little foolish, can you not use annual leave for a couple of months to take every friday off so that you have longer to find alternative childcare arrangements?

Childminder can give you three days a week. You need to spend three days in the office so that's sorted. You then take annual leave for the other day for a couple of months. Or even half a day of annual leave and make up the other hours elsewhere in the evenings if they'll let you do this.

The thing I struggled with though was the fact that assuming you're a solicitor, this isn't a 9-5 job. And so on the day that you work from home you will still need to do your minimum 7/8 hours chargeable and a couple of hours non chargeable.

The reality is that it isn't going to be easy to find a person who wants to work 2 days a week and they may well not have enough capacity elsewhere to pick up your workload (although they've clearly managed to cover your mat leave and so this would be a little odd)

Hello, and I'm very sorry to sound negative but this utterly screams that they've put you in the mental basket of "oh she's got a baby now so she'll be all distracted, ONLY here for some of the time and will likely get knocked up and go on leave again soon, let's save on the mat pay and give her a helping hand to resign".

Your situation was IDENTICAL to mine - and I was the only one in my whole division to have been outright refused any alternative working pattern from FT.

It was personal, our HR team are pathetic and I didn't have the mental strength to fight it so resigned.

I pass the office sometimes and feel like razing it to the ground so angry I am about what happened.

Some people just can't be arsed with dealing with flexi working - or more accurately mums returning from mat leave. You're forever "tainted" in their eyes as you're not "dedicated" anymore. Which is a load of shit.

Anyway - persevere with ACAS but remember this: flexible working is a privelidge and not a right. That right there will be flung at you from the off. GOOD LUCK

Onion I know flexible working isn't a right but there are still procedures to follow and in my experience there are many law firms that don't follow employment law procedures if they think they can get away with it.

From the law firm's perspective she's asking a lot. 3 days a week with only two of those in the office. It's not that surprising that they've said no.

What PQE are you OP?

He's not used to be left as I have no family who've ever been able to take him and he's never taken bottles. So I expect the early days of childcare to be very challenging having seen even what friends with much more laid back babies have been through. I really really really don't want- for his sake and my sanity- to settle him in with childminder for a few months and then have to start all over again with something else. I don't think that's fair on him.

Isn't that likely to be the case whenever you return though. Have you really been working towards going back or are you secretly hoping to find a way out. Phased return seems the most sensible proposal while you decide what to do. Who has been covering your ml, would they job share ? Would you need to repay any occupational maternity pay if you don't go back.

I think what anyone has to do, requesting a change in their working arrangements, is to make a business case for it, rather than as a convenience to you. Present what's in it for them, basically.

I'm kind of out of ideas on this though. I've offered flexi hours to include some evening cover (they admitted in meeting that they don't have any cover after 5pm, 4.30 some days!). But they turned that down as (due to it meaning working right up to the minute baby goes into bed at 7pm at which point I HAVE to feed him, this cover would have to be from home.) I offered to do this 5 days a week. They can't even SEE what's in it for them!

All the advantage of a job share they have countered with their insistence about 'loss of knowledge' in the handover process, and no handover day (because they refuse to hire a job share on enough days to allow for a handover day). They've also claimed they can't see how the work could be done like that despite it being absolute common knowledge which I have explained to them that me and the other person in the same role have always worked very collaboratively and have often taken over the other person's work with no issues.
The real thing that was really in it for them was to retain someone very highly though of wit great knowledge of the company who is delivering work at a higher level than anyone else they currently have. especially given their disastrous track record of recruiting for that role. But they've decided for whatever reason to ignore that. So I'm at a loss really.

Sorry but you're being unrealistic for a law firm. Flexi hours? . "Covering" once you're at home for the evenings is just part of the job anyway.

It's disappointing and stressful, but sadly, providing they've followed process, not made discriminatory statements etc, the upshot is your choices are to return on their terms, suggest an alternative work pattern (eg 4 days) or resign, meaning you take all the risks that entails (eg finding another job - probably FT, not many employment rights for 2 years, mat pay if you have DC2).

Some nannies working PT can seek work on Fridays.

I had the same request rejected when I came back from mat leave.

My options were longer hours four days a week (I.e 8-6) or five days a week at school hours, so I had a bit of flexibility. My job was also full time, but they have managed to take the remainder of my workload and share it out amongst the rest of the team.

Unfortunately they have no responsibility to approve flexible working. As another poster above suggests, can you use your leave to work 3 days a week until you can sort the childcare or find alternative work?

LIZ I don't understand? He's due to settle in with childminder after Chritmas for me to return end of Jan. The intention would then be for him to remain with that childminder indefinitely...so no, the disruption of settling in in one childcare setting only to them move to another one is not something I would ever expect to happen in normal circumstances. Don't know anyone else who has done that for any reasom, or who would want to.

Have I been working towards going back? I spent the first half of the year very conflicted- didn't want to leave him and struggled with idea of leaving him when I wasn't going to net any income. But I spent a LOT of time exploring childcare options to make sure I kept my options open. As time went on after arranging childminder and watching friends go back to work I started to make my peace with it. And from September ish onwards the fear of having to find a new job in X years time came to very much outweigh my reservations.
Most recently, when I went in to the office, meeting everyone, talking about what has been going on, projects for next year, what I might be working on, it was amazing how the last year fell away and everything clicked. I was talking and remembering that feeling of being in your zone, knowing what you're doing, very satisfying. I came home buzzing and for the first time really emotionally WANTED to go back and could really visualise it rather than it being this weird abstract concept on the horizon.

You have masses of leave. Go back after Christmas and use it to do a phased return whilst you find other childcare.

You're a lawyer - find the solution rather than dwelling on the problem

Whoops, missed quite a few posts there!

It does sound like they're digging their heels in quite a bit. My company were much the same - I had two choices and that was it, if it didn't work for me then tough. Luckily it has worked out well for me.

One thing I do have to say though is don't discount something based on how you think it might be. Going back from mat leave is tough, but it takes a few months to settle into a new routine and you may find it works well for both you and your baby. I spent the first two months of my return working much longer hours (almost full time) as I adjusted to the concept of part time working, until I realised I had to put my foot down and do the hours that I was paid for and no more.

my brutally honest advice for you is this.

CALM down, this is business not personal. you are tired and emotional but you must calm down in your dealings with them, and stay professional and non emotional

Many women have this, and often you are better of going back, proving yourself within a flexible context and then asking again

The business environment is tough now, consider that a FT role with 1 day at home is better than nothing, take it, get FT child care and then re-evaluate

what you want is a big ask. For most business to lose a FT time resource and go to 3 days is not easy, what you want is way more than just flex working. you are thinking that your rights as a mum are so sacrosanct that they override the business

I work in industry and all I am seeing right now is redundancies across the board. don't make yourself an extra problem for them.

This is very common, and believe me its way easier to ask for the flex work (and get it) once you have proven yourself

I am being blunt, but you need to take a step back here

This is what I'd do (and I'm not saying you ought to do this)

I think your work are utter pricks, and that they have utterly screwed you over. What's good for your boss is clearly not available to you.

Because of this I think you owe them zero good will whatsoever as they clearly want rid of you because for some weird reason they think they will be able to get someone as good as you.

So, mindset changed. I'd go back to work full time and hire a nanny. Even if all you're doing is using your whole salary to pay for it. I'd do this because it's easier to find a job in work than out of it. I'd expect one of two things to happen.

1. It would get rid of the possibility of your maternity cover as they would leave. They would come to rely on you again. Ask for more flexible working in the future. Work as much as you can to suit you - take proper lunch breaks and have the nanny bring the baby in. Ditto dinner breaks if you need to work later.

1. It will become obvious why your work want rid of you. Maybe they have something else in mind but 1. will scupper that.

I would not let them get rid of you so easily. It sounds like you've worked very hard and are very respected.

I'd use my whole salary to pay for a nanny to secure my working position until I found another suitable role. You do earn at least the same as a nanny ?

You can't "work from home" while you're caring for a baby who will be tired from being in childcare, unless your H will be at home then every day too.

Andshe'sgone's suggestion is good IMO.

It's completely unrealistic to think that its a simple case of "well she does it so why can't I?" The mere fact that someone else works flexibly makes it harder for everyone who follows. The business is already having to accommodate that previous person which means they have less scope for allowing others to do the same.

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm an employment lawyer, but you are asking to go from FT to three days a week with one day at home (which unfortunately for many is code for "please pay me but I'm actually going to be looking after my baby").

I agree with most of your post, and advice- but the phrase

I think your work are utter pricks, and that they have utterly screwed you over. What's good for your boss is clearly not available to you

is a way strong! I don't think OP is thinking about the business context, her boss has changed face. Its maybe not because she is a bitch but because there is a shit going down and she is in the brutal position of having to protect her own back, deliver results etc. I am not saying its right or good, but unfortunately we don't live in a Sandinavian lala land of equal rights.

Business is fucking TOUGH, right now., so I just think Op needs to think outside the box

and |I agree she would go back FT until she has a better option, if you resign you will feel shittier trust me and better to get a more flex role qwhen working FT

no one will die if you have to go FT childcare for a period of time , and your husband can take leave to make things easier

id say do whatever it takes to keep your job. Even if you don't earn from it. Try it. You often can negotiate better conditions from within than out.

If you end up leaving, getting back into the job market is hard. And you won't have any luxury of organising childcare before the offer! It's hard. Even if it's childcare you wouldn't choose, it might give you the chance to work your way into the good childcare. I used a childminder I didn't really like at first before space became available at the nursery.

Suggest to them a phased return as you plan to go back, and cynically I'd drop into conversation that you are done with kids etc.

I don't think that OP is suggesting working from home when the baby is home. I think she's suggesting it to reduce commuting time , so she can spend better quality morning/evening time with her child.

I wrote my dept's WFH policy. The first point is "Working from home is not a substitute for childcare".

I was forced out in a similar way and have never gone back to work.

I'm self-employed now. (Can you freelance at all?)

If not - I'd go back and suck it up using your holidays and working 3 days a week... until you work out what to do. Your child will survive either way, your career may not. If you give up you may be bitter forever!! Plus lose earning potential, pension, etc

It does sound stressful now, but in he future you may be really glad that you and your husband are sharing childcare more equally (if he gets his flex working request granted).
I am a bit surprised he is only just submitting it now-probably would have made more sense to both apply to your respective companies at the same time.
Don't quit your job-go back with the one day homeworking, and give yourself time to look for something else.

3 days and one at home is quite a change.

And actually 3 days a week is quite tough if there's a risk that your hours will bleed. I've done it and ended going back to 4.

So you should offer 4 days and get your DH to change his request to cover the other day so your ds only has three days as you planned.

It's an adjustment going back after mat leave anyway - when your childcare plans fall through, it makes it seem insurmountable. But it isn't.

Get a nanny share even if it costs more - it's a temporary sacrifice for long term game. If you make the short term decision that it is more than your wage, you will potentially lose out on future earnings and ability to get a more flexible arrangement.

I have to admit I do inwardly sigh when people ask for flexible arrangements which are of little benefit to the organisation. It's a two way agreement and may require compromise at first. I speak as someone who has two dcs and works part time. In my line of work it is very difficult if people work at home a lot - as we manage other people and have clients. You can't do that as well remotely.

stopfucking

I'm basing them being utter pricks on two things that are actually happening:

1. They have kept saying all along it's fine
2. They are actually saying they want rid of her with the 'good luck for the future' and making out it's a done deal she's leaving.

You're saying however that there's something else going on. That they've changed their mind based on business being hard/boss under pressure. NONE of these are facts in evidence, none are mentioned by the OP.

If we go on what's presented for some reason (we don't know) they clearly want rid of the OP.

andshesgone no, I can't afford a nanny. Even a nanny share would mean working at a loss that for 3 days a week would be doable but 5 days very difficult financially.

The one day a week from home would be when baby is in childcare. No way could I look after DS and work. It's to reduce commuting time to reduce stress and spend more time with DS (oh, I tried to sell it to them by offering to use part of the commuting time / all on occasion when needed) to actually work longer hours!!