made redundant in shock

[LadyRataxes]

I was called into a 1-1 meeting with my manager today and told i was being made redundant. Officially i am at risk- have two weeks to find internal job (they've told me there are none) and then get severance.
My firm (ex firm) is big city firm - my understanding is that they don't follow statutory rules but effectively pay enough to get out of it. If i sign the letter i can't claim unfair dismissal etc.

I am in shock - although as i have been asking my managers for more work for years and i know they are trying to promote the person below me and they are making general cuts i shouldn't be...

however - i don't know how to go about arguing the severance - it appears too little (i don't think i can force them to keep me - i just want to be paid enough) - how much should i expect?
they have told me I can discuss the severance with solicitors and have given me a list - but i don't know what to ask.

Emotionally I am a mess - i had an early miscarriage at the weekend and the two things combined are horrible (i was ok with the miscarriage as we were just going to try again but now...); i am the sole breadwinner. it feels like last week I was looking forward to a baby/long paid maternity leave which would give me some distance from the office and safety net - and now...

what else should i be thinking of?

I took voluntary redundancy from a bank after 10 years with just under a year's pay and it was the best thing I've ever done. I know it was voluntary but my advice would be take the weeks d to let it settle in, sign the compromise agreement and then start looking for a new job. It will be much healtheir for you in the long run I thibk and EVERYONE I know whonhas been made redundant (and obv that is a large number in fonaces last few years) has ended up saying it was a positive and are either better paid or happier. Good luck.

i just cannot see its likely that i get a job paying the same amount- which is obviously a big concern. I would probably be better paid if i could just drop a level at my current employers but they aren't going to allow that- ironically this would be good as it would give me continued employment and maternity rights.
I had a strange day yesterday - was in the office to pick up a couple of bits and see my managers , i also spoke to a couple of recruitment consultants - ironically the thing that made me feel better was actually doing some work (some because it has an external angle another bit because there was no way of avoiding it other than telling the guy what was happening) - i think it was because it felt normal and like i was worth something.
Busy was good- so i have actually had 12 hours without being in floods of tears (sadly the last time was in meeting with senior boss - part of me wishes i hadn't - should be more professional but part of me thinks this is the honest way it has affected me- i don't think he has a grasp of the real world and finances
Anyway recruitment agents were positive but i know it is a long road with no certainty

Lady, have you asked your employer about dropping a level?

I've been made redundant in the past, sometimes you never know, something better might be round the corner. Best of luck.

Why would your employers not allow you to drop a level?

TBH....I don't think it's any bad thing that managers have to see the actual human impact of redundancies so I wouldn't worry about crying in front of them...why shouldn't you?

Haven't read it all but did they know about TTC and miscarriage?

I would take them to the cleaners if so for discrimination.

My advice, is hold your nerve, do not sign anything and take professional advice.

Firms bank on people just signing to make the situation 'going away', but you want to make sure you come out with the best agreement / situation you can.

Take professional advice. I have been in your situation and speaking to an employment lawyer helped me feel confident about my value and I ended up taking an internal transfer. At the time, I felt humiliated and like I was a failure but the lawyer helped me see all the things that were wrong with the situation (and there were quite a few!) and by following some specific actions he suggested, I felt more in control. Angry, too, which helped as I made them see I would not just lie down and take it.

I've been made redundant 3 times. Each time I've gotten up, dusted myself off and carried on.

You need to hire a lawyer, your own, and have them deal with your employer. If they want you to sign anything they need to cough up (that was my lawyers approach and it was highly effective). At the same time you need to go in daily and get taking to your clients, those senior to you etc. I got lots of help from clients with finding a new job.

At the same time take a look at your finances. How much savings do you have in terms of your current expenses. It needs to be all hands on deck to get expenses down and income from anywhere. I worked in a bar so I was free during the day. I earned $100 some nights but that money kept my savings going.

Do I get the impression you've already got a lawyer? If not I would suggest that you do the opposite to what your firm are suggesting, and pick a lawyer who has already gone up against your firm (and emerged triumphant, for preference!)

A fairly easy way to find out who this might be is to look up law reports Vs [your firm], bearing in mind the administrative branch of your firm might be named differently (but you would have seen the name on letterhead and payslips, etc). At the end of cases, they list the barristers and solicitors who have worked the case.

I once did this and just seeing my choice, the firm shat itself and played nice.

(redhat can jump in with any amends to the idea and I won't be offended)

I obvs meant employment cases against your firm, not other types of disputes.

Preemptive Genius!

Hi OP my city firm made a large number of retrenchment announcements last week (I don't think it's the same one, my firm is not known for being unfair, unlike others). It's a bad time for banking, however depending on the role you do, there will be work out there for the compliance/ops roles (I get the impression this is possibly your area?). Appreciate you are in shock/upset but does it help to start making a plan? You will get a solid pay-out, that is certain, that plus a good new job puts you in a better position in the long run.

If you are looking to challenge, I absolutely agree with pp advice to select a legal firm not on the list they've given, but a known challenger to banks in employment cases.

Please don't feel embarrassed about it - this may not be a personalised decision (I hope for you it's not) anyone in banking who feels smug about not being retrenched now is an idiot, all roles are at risk indiscriminately over the next few years and people should be more likely to feel sympathy and want to support rather than superior.

Preemptive...great idea!

We're going through a global restructure at the moment and I'm expecting to be put at risk any day now (insurance firm in the City) so I'll store that tip in case I need it

Hi OP. I've not read the whole thread but I wanted to suggest to you that you don't leave quietly for less than the equivalent of 6 months pay after 12 years service. Personally I'd go for a year. Otherwise, go to a tribunal regardless of "unwritten rules". Also insist that they pay for decent outplacement support - it is really really good for keeping your spirits up and helping you get back on your feet.

I have been made redundant in my time and received 3 months gross salary after less than a year's service. I started a new job 7 weeks later for about the same salary (although the benefits weren't as good) but having that money cushion was really good.

Keep positive and all the best xx

Oh, and when you get a new job, join a union. And if you are reading this thread, join a union. They are not just for public sector workers.

Well....I will be joining you soon OP. Looks like my team will all be put at risk of redundancy today.

Ho hum...

Have never been through it myself as its usually me making other people redundant so very weird to be on the other side.

Just waiting for 'the call' as working from home in my PJs today.

Just wanted to say a bit of hand holding here and advice.

I worked for a lawyers who did settlement agreements yes yes to negotiating at least a years pay, you've been there 12 years and are specialist. Yes yes to them helping you (as abetadad) said re them having another company help you get another job, if you can bring in the miscarriage too, you could've been off sick with that for 3 weeks I think yet they're pressurising you to make decisions asap.

A good employment lawyer will be of help only because then they're on your side but also know where you stand legally and what and how to negotiate.

I've been made redundant and in a previous role also came up against a disciplinary due to my being bullied. I discovered later I'd have had a case against my boss.... I didn't take that up but since I've left I almost wish I did!

The worst thing redundancies make you feel is useless, worthless etc and all at a time when you're vulnerable eg just after its occurred. People telling you you've been 'sacked' (I had this) are no help either as sometimes it's a money and numbers game and quite discriminatory.

Good luck!

stumblymonkey hope you are ok?
i'm trying not to rush into things- either in terms of finding a new job (recruitment consultant told me not to panic) or legal stuff.
I hadn't really thought about taking time off re miscarriage (i was/am of the view that carrying on work as normal would have been the best thing for me- obviously not possible now) - but it makes sense why they suddenly told me to take as much time as i needed re the consultancy period - although it is really odd (am i supposed to be in or not, what am i supposed to say to people etc). I spoke to the health people at work (my boss suggested it) and they have referred me to therapy- which i told my boss about ( i can't see a downside in him knowing this).
I was in the office and its very odd- other people are leaving - some I know about have announced retirements or resignations - others seem to have vanished. On guy i know is possibly going to tribunal - they've told him his job is no longer required but employed others to do it.
In terms of severance does it have to be fair relative to others- i only ask as i know someone has been given more months than i?

superflyhigh any lawyer suggestions welcome! I'm collecting names currently. also can they negotiate that my employers pay more fees - i think their offer for fees is awful

Hi - yes as the others have said a specialist employment solicitor is essential at this time. Have you checked your settlement agreement
Stay positive - you may find a fresh start is what you need

Hi OP....just checking in to see how you are?

I was thinking of you this morning. They announced 115 redundancies at our place (including me) and we are now going through a 45 day collective consultation.

How are things on your side? How are you feeling about it now?

Huge sympathies for your situation, this was me 2 years ago, now I think it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

You need balls of steel and patience to hold your nerve in this scenario, the handling of my redundancy by my ex employer stank, I go my self a SH lawyer and she put them in a corner sweating.

My ex employers initial offer was £9k (taxable) and no roast on my non compete clause which meant I couldn't work for 6 months.

In the end we got £31k after tax and my non compete was written off. It's worth going into battle!!

I am ok- a bit calmer now. I found a lawyer that i liked- in that the approach she suggested was one i felt comfortable with -throw mud gently she described it.
My letter only went in on Friday - it basically talks about the fact they are trying to replace me with someone younger (aka age discrimination), the fact that the redundancies may have been targeted at those who were promoted in a certain year (also age discrimination) and some comments as to my family situation limiting travel etc - and also the fact they haven't answered any questions as to the process. I am not holding my breath but...

I managed to distract myself over Easter - as i had school holidays things to do and I knew that the employers/recruiters are out - I am beginning to get more panicky again now (why is no one calling??!!!) but trying to stay in control. i still have stuff to sort out at my old work which is a bit distracting so trying to stay busy. Other than that networking in a very English way- e.g. apologising for reaching out to people.

Oh - i also got referred to a psychologist for the impact that the combination had on me - i am not sure about this -i've only had one session and the psychologist wasn't someone who immediately clicked- she kept leaning her head on one side and speaking softly and gently and also came across as new age/hippyish - I am trying to be open minded -more and more though i think my reaction has just been natural and my ex employers panicked reaction is just a demonstration of their emotional crappness! anyway I am giving it a go- not least because being referred for these sessions is free and goes into my lawyer letter

Is this a genuine redundancy situation? What is going to happen to your job / work? Are there any other suitable alternative roles in the Company that you should be considered for given your length of service and skill set. You mentioned that someone less senior was being considered for promotion ..... should you be considered for that role?