made redundant in shock

[LadyRataxes]

I was called into a 1-1 meeting with my manager today and told i was being made redundant. Officially i am at risk- have two weeks to find internal job (they've told me there are none) and then get severance.
My firm (ex firm) is big city firm - my understanding is that they don't follow statutory rules but effectively pay enough to get out of it. If i sign the letter i can't claim unfair dismissal etc.

I am in shock - although as i have been asking my managers for more work for years and i know they are trying to promote the person below me and they are making general cuts i shouldn't be...

however - i don't know how to go about arguing the severance - it appears too little (i don't think i can force them to keep me - i just want to be paid enough) - how much should i expect?
they have told me I can discuss the severance with solicitors and have given me a list - but i don't know what to ask.

Emotionally I am a mess - i had an early miscarriage at the weekend and the two things combined are horrible (i was ok with the miscarriage as we were just going to try again but now...); i am the sole breadwinner. it feels like last week I was looking forward to a baby/long paid maternity leave which would give me some distance from the office and safety net - and now...

what else should i be thinking of?

If your employer pays a contribution to legal advice, it gives them a defence against you claiming you didn't know what you were signing. Which is why many make a token contribution.

A settlement agreement is not legally binding unless you have it signed by a solicitor. A settlement agreement or an ACAS COT3 agreement are the only way that you can give up your statutory employment rights (such as the right to claim unfair dismissal). That is why employers generally make a contribution.

I thought if it was a compromise agreement they had to pay for you to get legal Advice.

No. You have to take legal advice. They are not obliged to pay for it (but usually make a low contribution since it's in their interests for you to sign the agreement)

I agree with get legal advice asap - I mean take time off and go straight away. Lawyer can also negotiate on your behalf and get beyond what is the statutory min. as well. Especially if the situation isn't a real redundancy and they are skating close to the edge etc.

Remember they are being v objective about this , they won't do you any favours and have no loyalty to you - be black and white and try hard not to be emotional. Well not in front of them anyway.

You said you're the sole earner - is your partner a SAHP or unemployed and looking for work?

Just wanted to reassure you on a few points:

• Redundancy is not your fault and nothing to be ashamed of (I have struggled with this so I do understand the feeling)

• You will probably be able to find a new job relatively quickly. One small tip I have is to ask colleagues for LinkedIn recommendations before you leave. (I swallowed my pride, asked and got some great recommendations.) You could also tap into your network and ask people if they know about opportunities. And there is obviously the basic stuff like making sure you have a great cv and sending it to recruitment agencies.

• While you're looking for a job, you will be entitled to contributory JSA. Depending on your partner's circumstances and your joint financial situation (ie if you don't have any other income or savings over £16k) you may be entitled to other benefits too.

HTH

Forget the whole Tribunal route. It will cost you a fortune, lead nowhere and take two years out of your life as well as destroy your career.

Best thing is negotiate for a very a good reference and a pay off that gives you time to find another job.

People get made redundant in the City. I did. I asked to be made redundant and got the kind of payoff you are talking about which is designed to make a Tribunal claim unviable.

I did negotiate a package which included an outplacement consultant to help me find a new job, a good agreed reference and enough pay to cover 6 months that was tax free.

Most importantly get out there and start looking for another job NOW!

Every day that goes by makes you look more stale. Ideally get another job before you officially leave the old one.

Good luck!

You can also talk to ACAS yourself if you want to. They have a helpline that you can call. In a similar situation they helped a few of us establish whether our firm had acted within the law and also helped as an intermediary when we negotiated a settlement to drop out employment tribunal case we had lodged. They did not help us decide how much to go for but meant we didn't have to deal directly with the ex employer.

Yes also make sure part of the compromise agreement is agreed wording for a reference. I never needed to use it but it was a relief to know it was there if I did. Also, make sure you check it in detail, my lovely ex-employer tried rewording it in the final agreement I was asked to sign. Thankfully I spotted it and insisted it was correctly worded before signing.

Good luck.

Good idea to negotiate for a good reference and an outplacement consultant if possible.

I'm not convinced by this though:
"Every day that goes by makes you look more stale."
Really?! I think this kind of thing just adds pressure and makes you feel worse. Sure, the OP needs to start looking for a new job straight away, but she is not going to look "stale" if there is a small gap. Some people me included take a month or so off to go travelling. I don't think employers are going to worry too much about that. It's the OP's 12+ years of experience that they're going to care about.

AnotherEmma - yes of course a few weeks or a month will not matter if that was the time the OP was unemployed would make no difference but of course it is incredibly unlikely she will get a job that quick.

My outplacement consultant drummed this into me. Getting your CV together, putting out letters to the various headhunting firms that most City jobs come through, going to initial interview with the headhunters will take a month from today, then getting to employers interviews, negotiating a new job offer is all going to take 3 months absolute minimum.

Leaving it two months before beginning a job search will quickly become at least 6 months before the OP starts a new job. The process really does have to start tomorrow. Taking a month off is a good thing once you have a job in the bag. Unless you are in hot demand and the employer wants you to start immediately.

,

Thanks- i think the City folk are right- the only thing they may have done wrong is the length of consultation period but is is very unclear how many people they are making redundant - they do a percentage every year but apparently this is separate (more senior).
I suspect they are legally fine- they employ enough lawyers and are used to doing this.
my immediate question to stumblymonkey/aBetadad is how to negotiate a settlement - what they offered me doesn't feel good in relative terms (relative to me salary and living expenses) but i am crap at negotiating. Particularly at moment when my default response to everything is to burst into tears.

They didn't know i was pregnant (was

Banking - the nasty side -

"my immediate question...is how to negotiate a settlement"

You don't. You take the proposed settlement agreement to a competent lawyer, who will ask you about the circumstances of your termination and advise you on legal vulnerabilities your employer are facing, whether as a result of those a higher settlement might be achievable, and will correspond with your employer along those lines.

A solicitor who deals with settlement agreements day in day out will know what to ask you and will work on your behalf. I expect they'll probably be used to employees bursting into tears in this situation as well, so don't worry about that!

I agree with flowery. Let the lawyer do the negotiating.

Personally I think you need a few days breathing space to let the news sink in and the emotional impact subside before throwing yourself into job searching. With all due respect if you keep bursting into tears you're not in the best place to land a great job. Focus on getting a lawyer and looking after yourself over the next few days. Then look at your cv at the weekend maybe.

I have people cry on me all the time. We are very used to it and our aim is to ensure that you have a fair settlement and that you know exactly what you are signing/what rights you are waiving.

ok- i thought the settlement was more a commercial discussion rather than lego but will talk to the lawyers. They (my employers) have given me a list of lawyers I can call (based on their familiarity with my employers settlement terms) - is it worth going independently or would these firms be obliged to be independent?
anotherEmma- I agree re the crying- the problem is i feel the need to do something - i am very worried about the finances - i also have a very specialist role which is highly sensitive to being up to speed.

i am out of the office at the moment - apparently i get to choose how my departure is messaged- but it also means that my team doesn't know what is happening which is stressful. Plus my boss wants to talk to me about my sad news which isn't really something i wanted to discuss

They may well have negotiated pricing with those firms. The firms are obliged to be independent but it is possible that they won't fight your corner quite so much. Your employer will make the same contribution towards any lawyer though so go with someone you are comfortable with.

Re how to tell people about leaving, I suggest being honest about the fact that it's redundancy. I sent a carefully worded email to the colleagues I had worked with and got on with, explaining that I was being made redundant, was leaving on x date, had enjoyed working with them etc etc. Then the manager sent a blanket email to everyone saying that I was leaving but not saying why and not saying ANYTHING nice about me. I was really upset about it actually (it might seem like a small thing but it wasn't to me). Anyway I was glad I had sent my own email so most of the people I cared about knew what had happened. And hopefully the word will have got round to other people.

Sorry for rambling, I know this isn't about me!

I don't think you should talk to your boss about your miscarriage if you don't want to btw. Tell them to fuck off that you don't want to discuss it.

My advice re the lawyers is to speak to a few, sometimes we settle on the first one and don't explore the options - a friend of mine in similiar/more extreme circumstances ended up changing lawyers 3 times due to incompetency and these were big firm names too. Find one you feel speaks the same language, isn't fobbing you off as "stupid" "Ignorant" "female" and knows their stuff as far as you can tell - you do need to be up to speed yourself but you need to see all this as a challenge and fight your corner for more money as far as possible - to the point of taking the mickey in your view as at the end of the day they want you to leave they need to pay for that so that you have some ease of moving into the next post.

I agree with the get moving now re new job don't leave it, when you get the job take a holiday and be fresh for new stuff

Lawyer was helpful - she thinks she might be expensive if it goes nasty (i forget the term!) - she gave me some other names and i've got one from a friend as well. also am trying to find out what my insurance covers- it seems to cover legal expenses so what i'm hoping is that they can pay to my chosen lawyer.

Am still in shock- would really like to get increased settlement to give me some breathing space and security- a couple of people i've spoken to in the industry have been trying to give me ideas what is normal but it is a strange business environment

Emma- I think to be fair that the communication discussion is supposed to allow you to make a dignified exit etc- its slightly undermined by the fact that i was blatantly in floods of tears and probably will be again.

Have spoken to a number of recruitment consultants. I need to think who/if its worth talking to internally.
Meeting with my senior boss today- wants to discuss my sad news - will try and be dignified - my direct boss suggested i speak to our health people and i didn't react well. I can't work out if they are trying to push me going out on sick and whether there is any advantage in that

Lady, if you don't want to talk about it, don't

The health people are there in case you want to but if you'd rather keep personal stuff personal, by all means do.

I am sorry you're having such a tough time

"also am trying to find out what my insurance covers- it seems to cover legal expenses so what i'm hoping is that they can pay to my chosen lawyer."

You can ask, but it's unlikely - AFAIK, many insurers ask internal claims to assess if you have a greater than 50% chance of winning a tribunal and if not, they won't pay; if so, I think they will have a list of their own lawyers.

How much consultation do you have now that they've increased it?

I know you said they have offered more than statutory but how many weeks gross pay does it come to so that we have an idea of the initial offer?

I would ask them, in writing, to tell you:

• How many people are being made redundant and how they have come to decide on the consultation period that they have?

• Why your role is being made redundant?

• How they anticipate covering your workload following the redundancy?

Are you the only person doing your role in the company?

If not, what is happening to others doing the role?

If you want to negotiate a higher settlement then you need an angle where it could be argued they haven't done things entirely correctly. The answers to these questions might give you something....

I'm afraid most insurance policies only kick in at the point at which you issue employment tribunal proceedings.