Aaargh, dh might be moving job to London....

[PineConesAndHonneybunny]

... which means that I should seriously start thinking about what I want to do:
a. find full time job there, and continue life as we know it now (but in Cambridge). Ds1 and ds2 in full time nursery
b. find part time job there, and stay home with kids other half of the time.
c. become SAHM.
I am getting absolutely terrified at the idea of having to up-root the dc-s, dh and me. Selling our house, which we only just bought really (April 2004). Moving job. I actually really like the place i work right now, but the chances of getting a permanent position are v.slim, though my boss seems to think he can probably arrange something.
I guess what I am really looking for are some words of support. Someone who's done the same thing. Someone who lives in London (West, Ealing? Acton?) with children, and enjoys it. We used to live in Ealing, but this is years ago, BK=before kids, as dh always says.
Sorry, I am rambling, but it is late, and I have just posted my CV to someone who might be able to help me find a job, so I am a bit anxious and excited.

d. Don't do anything until you know if dh gets the job.

Woah, if you don't want change, does your DH have to go?

Oh, and commuting between Cambridge and London would suck, it's too far, you'd never get to see your kids, and you'd spend all your time on the train.

I agree, there's no point in worrying about it before it happens.

If a) well, working ft isn't so bad you know, I actually prefer it to being at home (although I'd love part time)
b) Might be possible.
c) You could try it and work if you don't like it.

I've moved 5 times since ds was born (in 9 years) and it's fine. Not completely the most ideal thing in the world but ok and perfectly do able. I used to live in South Ealing btw and were the situation to demand it I could very easily live in London - esp suburbs like Ealing - again. As it is I live an hour away in the countryside with a London salary so there's nothing to be gained by moving in for me.

So I'd say don't worry unless it happens and even then it might not be bad at all.

The sexism... oh dear. Will it never end? Women always following men like lambs to the slaughter, like slaves with a master... why is it always the women following the men, the great male careers coming first and women tagging along without question because men come first.
Why isn't he following your career? He posting because he's worried you're posted to Brussels and can he find a job to fit around you and the family?

Xenia, why is it sexist? They're a couple, they're making a joint decision (I presume, nothing to suggest otherwise.) What do you want them to do, split up? I would move for DH's job if it was worth it, and he would for mine. It's not sexist, it's negotiation.

I'd just like to point out that dh, ds and dd have just relocated 150 miles for MY job. Mainly because I earn more therefore yes, my job is more important than dh's, we both agree so.

I'm moving next year for better schools for my children. However, I only have boys, so I'm sure that's sexist too

Xenia, this can be part and parcel of a successful relationship. Sometimes it is one partner taking precedence and sometimes the other, it's not always a purely black and white thing. In lasting and successful marriages there are sometimes times when one partner puts the needs of the other first and this is not always the woman. It's not just a sexism issue, it can be an issue of the reality of life and compromise; and what we gain from that can be huge, not least the chance of a long lasting relationship with our husbands, the chance of enjoying the fruits of life together, being together to support eachother and bring eachother joy all through life even when we're old.

Some decisions seen as a 'snapshot' might seem to be based on a sexist framework but I think in many successful, lasting marriages it is a little deeper than that.

Xenia, who says she's following her dh like a lamb to the slaughter? Years ago, dh and I looked at the prospect of moving our family to the UK because I had the chance to earn more money. It didn't work out in the end but would you have said dh was a lamb to the slaughter if he followed me? Most couples I know go where the money is, provided it's not a war-zone.

Actually, I agree with Xenia here. The OP doesn't say "we have decided", she says "dh might be moving job to London". And she clearly doesn't want to go.

I agree that couples should ideally make these decisions together, based on what's best for everyone, and that doesn't sound like what's happening here, at least by (what little we see in) the OP.

More women make these sacrifices to their detriment than men in the UK and I post divorce with the sad cynicism that brings and knowings lots of people after a divorce know the consequences that can have. When as many men as women put their wives careers' first then I will give up making these comments. I would hope that owuld be so in the next 10 - 20 years and let us all try to ensure that that is so in the examples we set our children and the lives we lead so there is sexual neutrality in these mattesr. Add it to your list of new year resolutions to keep me happy.

Good to see some women on the thread whose husbands put their careers first and of course I take on board the comments about successful long term relationships. I was reading a series of profiles last week of long lasting marriages of two career couples and what was clear from that was at various times one or other had let the other's career go first but both respecting the work of the other and indeed very much supporting the career aspirations of the other.

I have some sympathy for Xenia's pov on general grounds - not necessarily applying to any indvidual. By and large it is mostly women who make sacrifices for their dp/dh's careers. My mother moved five times in seven years for my dad's job. Most of those moves she was OK with but there was one that she resented for years afterwards - she had to leave a village where we were part of the community and she had a good job for a place she didn't want to be (once they divorced her career took off and we moved 'back' not too far from the village).

Having been through it as a child, I'd be happy to move for either of our careers in theory, but in practice I'd want to do a lot of research first to make sure we were both happy.

Yep, me too.

I'm never sure, to be frank, that DP and I do make 'joint decisions'; it tends to be one or the other of us saying 'I'm going to apply for such and such'

Mind you, he did once suggest we move to Tonbridge and I raised the decibel level considerably, and we resumed our surprisingly equitable tactic of informing the other what we planned to do.

Only read the OP..just wanted to say that dh and I are in the process of exactly the opposite of you! - Dh has taken a job near Cambridge and at the moment is travelling up and down and staying nights in a bed and breakfast. I had just got childcare that I was happy with, and dd in a fab pre-school and ds into a good primary. And I work in London so would have to commute back from wherever we move to or look for a job in cambridge. I have no real advice but if you want sympathy I'm here!

Oh, just realised that we have even more in common. We have lived in Ealing for the last 10 years at least. It is great for families, lots of parks with new equipment, nurseries, 2 great swimming pools nearby, lots of kids' clubs and classes, plenty of child-friendly cafes and resturants, cinema etc. And the primary schools are great (and there is quite a turnover of children so it's not impossible to get a place in a good school)

Oh, and if you need a local guide if you decide to scout about ealing CAT me - I've a houseful of toys and cups of tea.

Wrt to the OP, it's not worth trying to cross bridges until you come to them. See what's what before wasting time and energy on the subject.

Wrt to Xenia's post, if a couple have made a decision which, presumably, betters both their lives, I can't see that it is sexist just because it's the male who changes/moves job.

Fwiw, my ds1 will be the 'trailing spouse' in his marriage, live in housing that comes with his dw's work and will probably always earn less too. He's not alone, it's pretty common nowadays that couples accomodate each other's work. But I also know a couple who have the worst of both worlds. Unless one of them retrains/gives up their career they are stuck where they are, with no chance of promotion, because there are so few places where they can both get jobs in their respective specialities.

Dh and I decided where we wanted to live first. However good the job offer was - if it's not here it's not happening. I don't mean we won't move house, but we would stay in the same town. We moved 16,000 kms to be here - I'm not moving again!

It does mean that dh will possibly never be promoted, but it also means that ds's schooling won't be interupted. Dh feels really strongly about this as his mother (who is the intelligent one) trailed around NZ following my FIL's career. All the children got bum deals with schooling, dh moving the year before his final exams (and thus having to do completely different ones), SIL having to live with another family so the same didn't happen to her, and BIL going to boarding school (because PIL had seen the resentment from the first two and thought they'd give it a go - it was the worst of all).

Hi all.
Thanks for all the messages. Looks like i started a whole discussion here..
Just wanted to make something clear: am not a lamb in this . Dh and I will make the decision together, and he is actually as anxious about the whole thing as i am. We moved away from London (to Cambridge) 4 years ago, when ds1 was on the way, and both of us have always said, isn't it a good thing we won't have to raise our kids in big old London. We did really enjoy living in Ealing, but haven't with a child so that would be a whole new experience... The job that dh is being offered (though nothing on aper yet) is a big carier break for him, and would mean a huge increase in pay. (It looks like he will get reader pos at one of uni-s there). His job in Cambridge might offer him similar thing, once they hear hes thinking of moving, though... we'll see.
My prospects in London would be good. Dh's future boss has offered to look around for me, and i have mailed him my cv. Am also planning to look around myself, just in case i could find something better myself.
As it is, i love my present job, but this is supposed to be a 3 year contract, which ends in January 2008, so it would be good timing to move then...
In the Honneybunny household dh is the main breadwinner, my salary is getting better and better eacht yeaqr, but he's more advanced and probably more ambitious. We're both in research, but he actually has his own group, a thing that i don't necessarily want for myself: i have two kids, that will only grow up once, and i don't want myself to miss that regretting it 10 years down the line. Anyway, just wanted to let you guys know that it IS both of us making the decision, not dh getting things his way. In fact, we've always made it clear that we come as a package, and will go wherever we're off best. All of us, so incl. ds-s!
Bluebear, we do seem to have a lot in common. We've been in the Cambs area for the last 4 years, and if you need any info on nurseries, schools (htough my kids are just 1 and 3, we have looked at some schools in the s cambs area for ds1), etc. Funny that you are doing the reverse thing! If you're still in Ealing by the time we would go, I'll def. give you a shout.

But I know absolutely loads of people who commute from Cambridge to London every single day. They know each other on the train. It's quite fun travellinng up. It takes less than an hour. Why do you have to move at all? Can't he just commute in?

There is a big difference between the cental cambridge to central london commute (45 mins to kings x) and from surburban cambridge to non-central london. I work with people who commute from Cambridge to Central London - takes them about an hour..but my dh would need to travel to Kings X (40mins) then to Cambridge (45 plus waiting time for train) then to his office ( at least another 30 mins using bus/local train). I guess Honeybunney is in a similar position - people don't look at disrupting their lives and losing money by paying stamp duty etc unless they have to.

Honeybunney - My dh has suggested that we house-swap with you

More sensibley, I have a book produced by a local parenting group that has loads of infomation about facilities for families in Ealing - I would be happy to post it to you if you want.. my email is bluebeartwobears at yahoo dot co dot uk
It may be a couple of years out of date but may help you with the 'oh my gawd what am I doing?' panic (well, that's how I'm feeling about our intended move!)
We're actually looking at moving to Saffron Walden so that both the London commute and dh's north of cambridge commute are do-able. Would that be at all possible for you? So you can keep your current job and dh still get to work in London?

at the house swap, Bluebear! My dh started laughing and said 'good plan!'. But seriously, thanks for the offer for the book. We have a similar book for Cambridge, it also is a bit old (2003) but still usable and it was of great use for us when we first moved to the area. Why don't we swam books first?! I am not actually in UK at the moment (on hols) but as soon as I'm back I'll send you an email with address details!
Xenia, I guess commuting would be an option, but not a very good one, and def. not a long term solution: dh would be in west london (acton/ealing area) and i know exactly how awful that commute is, as I did it for almost a year. When we moved up to Cambridge I was finishing of my PhD at the same plave where dh would take up a job now. This is also the reason why at first he said, he could commute into London. But as my job is finished in Cambridge around the same time that he would start his new job, we might as well look for a new job for me where he is going and all move there... If dh would commute that would mean upto 4 hours of travel a day, and that's not a lot of fun. It would basically mean he would leave the house at 6:45 to catch the 7:15 train (possibly earlier if he would need to get into cambridge by bus) arrive at work at 9-9:30 and not be home until 8pm, or possibly later, if he would have to make his own way home (busses are not very good/reliable). This would mean that he would leave before the ds-s get up, and not make it back in time for dc-s bedtime, or I would have to get them up early and to bed late, if I need to go and pick him up (we only have one car). I don't think in the long run I would be so happy with such an arrangement: dinner time is family time for us, and we would suddenly have to miss out on that. Maybe I have been spoiled, but I actually really like being able to all sit around the table and eat and talk about our days (ds2 usually doesn't say more than 'bababa' ).
This all doesn't take away the fact that I am terrified about the move. I am not a person that likes change, and it takes me a long time to make friends etc, we'll have to find good childcare arrangements for the dc-s (our nursery here is so wonderful, that i am sad they will have to leave there), enlist ds1 at a school, find new house (prices in cambs are high, but prob nothing compared to london....). Anyway, as some of the posters said already, why not cross the bridge when you're at it... This makes a lot of sense obviously, but it def. helps to have written my posts here, and read all your messages to deal with the idea that we might be moving back to london. thanks!

hi pinecones, there are quite a few west london/surrey mums here so keep it bumped. I'm a bit further out than ealing, where you get a bit more for your money, so if the house prices blow your budget, let me know if you want more info

Good point. People I know live in centre of Cambridge and work in the City not too far from Kings X and I suppose like the life and schools in Cambridge better than London too. I suspect some of them - they are all men that I'm thinking of here of course... are quite glad some days they get home after children's bed time although it's not very PC to say that.

Hey Honneybunny - how's it going? Are you back from holiday yet?
mail me your address and I'll send you the local info book...don't need to worry about sending me a Cambridge version as I'll probably end up in Essex.

Bit of a tangent and maybe I am biased having spent my childhood in the provinces and found it rather tame. And maybe I 've lived in London for far too long but I am genuinely bemused by the idea that people feel that they don't want to bring children up in London (house prices aside) especially in leafy places such as Ealing, Barnet, Richmond etc.

My two DS love living in London and of course there are problems here but it also seems to me that there are loads of drugs and other problems in rural/provincial England. I think people often romanticise outside London and demonise London, which after all is only a collection of very interesting villages full of diversity.

And when they get to teenage years much more to do etc.

This is sort of meant as reassurance to original poster that Ealing would be a great place with children just as it is without.

And in terms of following DH my ex would have never considered moving for my career so efffectively I put it on hold - also I took and take most of the responsibility for nursery pick up etc/school run. That's jsut how it was and yes it was letting him off the hook. I work but my career has stagnated and because I have a very flexible and understanding employer am quite scared of moving in case the next is not so understanding. Pressure I couldn't take.

Rather garbled but hopefully constructive