persevere with playgroup???

[monkey]

I'd appreciate any advice on this.

I have a 2 going on 3 year old son. I am a SAHM. He has just started going to a playgroup a couple of weeks ago. It's without me, for 2 - 3 hours twice a week. It is truly awful taking him. Halfway there he starts crying that he doesn't want to go, and when I say goodbye to him he is weeping, to the point I feel like weeping too. Today he had to be prised off me. It's so hard for me. When I collect him he seems perfectly fine and excited and tells me he had a good time. He also points out other kids he likes that he played with.

I thought for a long time about finding him a playgroup or other such thing, and I had loads of reasons why it was a good idea, but now I'm wracking my brains and wonder if I'm doing the right thing. On the one hand he's only been going a couple of weeks, so not really had chance to get used to it. On the other hand am I doing the right thing persevereing with it when he seems so unhappy. i'm at home full time, so work isn't an issue. One of the reasons I arranged it was that I thought it would do him good being without me for a little bit. When he goes, my other child is napping, and I'm constantly on at him to be quiet, so I thought being able to play with other kids would be much more fun than me reminding him to talk quietly etc all the time.

Another thing, every single day, several times a day, he says "I don't want to go to playgroup today" out of the blue. Is it really troubling him so much and on his mind all the time???

If I decide (or get advised!) to ditch the playgroup, how much notice if any do you generally have to give? It's my first experience of this.

Thanks

I think this is a hard one, Monkey. Obviously you don't want your son to be unhappy if he isn't ready for playgroup yet but on the other hand IME lots of kids take some time to settle into their first group setting away from Mum. I think it's a good sign that your son seems happy when you pick him up. Personally, I'd give it a couple more weeks at least, especially if he only goes a twice a week since it'll take a while for him to see it as a regular part of his life.
Are you happy with the playgroup yourself? I know this sounds like a silly question but I definitely had a few reservations about my boys' first playgroup and that affected the way I responded to them settling in. When they went to their current nursery I felt much more confident that it was a really lovely place and I'm sure that made a difference to the way I felt when they were sad to be left there in the initial few days. Whereas I felt quite anxious at the first place when they didn't want to be left and asked myself the same sorts of questions that you are asking here, at the second I had more of a "once they get used to it they're gonna love it here" attitude.

Thanks star & Scummymummy. Re yr q. Scummymummy, I'm having doubts about the group - I'm just not sure. They came highly recommended - by my next door neighbour, another friend and the health visitor - all independant of each other. But it's all unstructured supervised play, mixed ages (they are all here), and ds has specifically said that the ladies are nasty and shouted at him. Obviously this would make maost people recoil in horror, but 'nasty' is one of his new and much-used words at the mo, and he also takes great umbrage at being shouted at, so I can plausibly believe a lively 'come on and help put the toys away' type of situation could damage his fragile anti-shouting ego (although he does plaenty of it himself). Nevertheless, he does seem to not like one of the women. I just don't knw what to do for the best for my son.

staying for a while is not really an option as my other ds has naps at this time. I have tried taking him & leaving him really quickly & also the slow method. A lingering goodbye seems to just give him more opportunity to get worked up, but a quichie just seems so brutal. I just don't know what to do for the best.

My son started nursery two days a week back in November. It is a day nursery - he goes from about 9.30 till 5.30 to allow me to try and get some work done from home. They had a brilliant settling in period of two weeks where he went almost daily - firstly for an hour with me, then an hour by himself, then two hours etc etc until he had built up to a whole day. I think the continuity of those two weeks allowed for him to get to grips with it in a way that only going for two days a week initially wouldn't have. He loves the place now, although I have to say he can go through clingy phases every now and then - but is fine the minute I have disappeared. (I know because I have popped back to check and phoned in the past). I like the fact that the carers there appreciate that it can be just as heart wrenching for the parents as for the children and are happy for you to call etc. Can you do likewise Monkey? It might put your mind at rest if you knew that your son had settled within say twenty minutes of your leaving? Also what about seeing if you could take your son more regularly for a shorter time for a week or so, to help him get in to the swing of things?
Having said that, I do think it is important that you "feel good" about the place. My son's nursery might not be the smartest in the area but it has a really nice, warm atmosphere that both he and I have responded to. So if your hackles are up you might do well to trust your senses and look elsewhere. Let us know how you get on.

asbf - it's only for a couple of hours a couple of tmes a week. I originally said 12 - 5, but they serve lunch at 12, so I found when I arrived they were all rushing round getting organised and no one was free really to even take ds off me, plus he was so upset he wouldn't eat, so the first time he went from breakfast to 4 (they called me to collect him early) with nothing to eat. I was really unhappy about taking him into such a frantic atmosphere, so I changed the time to 2 til 4.30. Maybe it's now not even worth it for such a short time?

btw I did used to go to a gyn 3 times a week where he would happily go in the creche - I used to have the opposite problem where he'd cry when he had to come home! I haven't been for a while because we had a family holiday which really unsettled him & he got really clingy. This was just a couple of weeks prior to the start of playgroup, so maybe it's just a matter of unfortunate timing.

I did 'phone one day ( I think the 2nd time) to see if he's stopped crying. There seems to be a bit of a language barrier, so I'm not 100% sure if she was telling me I shouldn't call them(ie I was an annoying fussy mother wasting their time), or if she was reassuring me that I needn't call & that they'd call me if there was a problem. Another reason I'm not 100% happy & convinced. Dh thinks I'm being too fussy and soft and basically won't discuss, which is why I'm turning to you all for help!

Monkey,

Do you know some other mothers with children at the same nursery school? Maybe they could reassure you, or help you make up your mind that the school is not for your family? It sounds from your message that you're not exactly convinced that you like the school -- you mentioned a language barrier, and the problems you had when your son went all day without any food.

Best, Lorien

Both my girls started nursery at 18m, and had tearful times in the first 3 months. Sometimes just a bit and sometimes being prised off too. But now my youngest is 2 and very happy there, and my oldest 4 1/2 misses it in the holidays!!
One thing I found that helped them both was not to carry them in, hold hands and walk in(preferably walk together in the street first and carry on in) and then quickly distract by looking at a toy/ activity. They always settled better if I could get them off me before we went in!
Persevere though, if you're happy with the nursery, it will get better. All the best.

My 2.5 year old daughter cries everytime I drop her at the childminders, but stops literally seconds after I leave (I have listened outside). She also says 'I don't want to go to Debbie's house' or 'No Debbies house' on many occasions. I am afraid I ignore it as I completely trust my childminder and although I am a SAHM, I do work occasionally and also I need the break!! Also dd has a lovely time once she's there and is always full of the fab things that they've all done together.

I deliberately chose not to send her to playgroup (see all the stress on the 'Playgroup at 2.5?' thread!) and found that a childminder was a much better option. My childminder reassures me as much as she can that it is just the seperation and that she never cries when I am gone. I am hoping that she'll grow out of it as I feel sorry for the childminder!!

Have you spoken to the nursery staff about how your son is while you are away? Are they reassuring and full of suggestions? If not, maybe you should think of something else - a childminder may be easier for your ds to adjust to.

Just to add that the playgroup I originally left dd at was supposedly the 'best' in the area, and came very highly recommended by many people - but it wasn't right for us!

Moneky, I agree with the comments here. It's early days, so persevere with the playgroup. I think the best sign of all is that your son is so happy there when you collect him. My 2.5 toddler has recently attended a new creche two times a week at our leisure centre.

He is very used to other creches, playgroups and childminders, but he still cried a lot when left the first few times. After that, he was all smiles when it came to leave - by then he had discovered the toys and he knew the carers.

If you feel uneasy with the playgroup - you mention a language barrier and a hectic atmosphere - do look around for another in the meantime, though. I agree with the other messages - you have to trust your instincts.

One tip I have heard about, but havn't ever tried, is to leave a personal item of yours like a scarf at the playgroup, so your son is sure you are coming back. This might help?

Hope things fall into place soon

My child has been going to a nursery since he was 8 months, so it has not been an issue for me. However, a little boy recently started 2 sessions a week (age 2), and I was rather alarmed at the amount of time he spent crying. It seemed like everytime I went in to collect my son this little boy was sobbing his heart out, calling for his mummy and trying to put on his coat. I used to find it quite upsetting, and was surprised that it did not seem to peturb the nursery staff. I used to collect my son early, so I am not sure if he had settled by hometime, and I am also not sure what they told his Mum, but I have to say that I was sorely tempted to tell his Mum myself that I didn't think her child was settling very well. Having said that, after about 2 months he did eventually settle and seems much happier now, but I still think that if I was his mother, I would have taken him out so as not to cause that much distress. I suppose the issue I am getting at is how much of the time is he unhappy, and how soon does he settle after you have left.

Message withdrawn

Tanks everyone. What you said has put my mind at rest. Then today I wennt to the gyn for the first time in ages 9holiday, sickness, full creche has kept me away for ages,), and anyway, he cried the whole way there, said he didn't like it & it was nasty - all the things he's been saying about the new place, so although it was very tough to leave him, I did actually feel much better, and that this is maybe more of a phase, just unfortunately with a new playgroup in the middle - does that make sense? So, I feel a lot more confident about carrying on, for a few weeks at least. It's a pain I can't hang around really, till he felt better, but when you've got 2 you can't always be with them or do as much as you'd like.

Thanks so much all.

It is a good idea for him to go to playgroup. If he doesn't get used to not having you now, he will go through the crying thing when he goes to school.

My confidance of yesterday has been totally crushed! Just taken him - worse than ever - he was screaming hysterically and it was really difficult to get him off me. They said he was usually ok after 10 minutes. I waited & listened outside & he was still screaming and sobbing I want my mummy for 15 minutes - I couldn't stay any longer, but he was still crying & screaming, not even subsiding a bit after 15 mins. (yet at the gym, after 2 minutes max. he was playing quite happily).

I'm wondering how long I can/should leave it - it's definitely getting worse. 4 weeks then give up?

As they don't start school till age 7 or 8, and he's fine at the gym(after initial tears yesterday), I don't see it being a necessity from that point of view jbr!

I took dd away after 5 sessions, there was another little boy there who was also having trouble settling (crying hysterically etc) and his mum persevered for nearly 4 months but she has finally taken him away as he never settled.

I'm sorry, but I would recommend taking him somewhere else, once they have really set their mind against something it's quite hard to change it! Perhaps you could try again later.

It interests me that some people who recommend leaving your son to cry at nursery are exactly the same people who are anti controlled crying at bedtime! The difference being...??

didn't realise that you weren't a u.k. mumsnetter monkey, nice that school is such a long way off! Can't help thinking that as he isn't settling at the playgroup but is o.k. at the gym creche that maybe the group just isn't the right place for him. Although I do think it'll help him (and you) if is able to spend time with other kids without you, maybe he would be better off in a smaller group? To be honest it sounds like a lot of stress as he is only having 2/3 hours there. If I were you I would withdraw him but look round until you find a nursey/preschool group he can go to for say 2 morning sessions a week, where you are happy with the staff and which has an environment which might suit your little boy better. After all "the best" may not be "the best" for your child.

Thanks a lot for your last 2 posts, Enid & Angharad. I'm really doubtful now. He didn't seem so happy when I went to get him I think I might try taking his bro with him next time if they'll let me, it's supposed to be from 2 but she did indicate they's take siblings younger. If that doesn't bring a marked improvement after 2 visits, say, then I'll withdraw him. It seems so much agony. Dh thinks I'm too soft with him, so I think he'd like to carry on, but then he isn't the one he's clinging to & begging not to go, is he?

I absolutely agree btw Enid about leaving your child to cry at night vs. at playgroup.

The difference being that the child being left at playground is presumably being actively comforted by an adult while the baby/ child in their room is left alone possibly feeling abandoned, frightened etc.

Monkey - How is he when you pick him up? Does he seem like he's had a good time? Lots of kids find it difficult to separate from their mum, even up to 7 or 8. I sent my son to playgroup at 2.5, and he was fine when I left, but would be upset and crying when I returned. We sent him for 8 sessions, and each time he was worse, so we stopped. He then didn't go until he was nearly 3.5, at which point he sailed in completely happy. Despite the fact that I had another baby by then, so had two had home full time for 1.5 yrs, I don't regret it at all. It was definitely the right thing for him. Having said that my younger son went to playgroup at 2.5, and never looked back. Horses for courses! He might just be too young.

I tried to leave my son at a playgroup when he was about the same age as yours and he hated it. He reacted in exactly the same way as your little boy. I persevered for a while and then began to question for whose benefit I was persisting with it I decided to delay it until he was ready and now at the age of three he loves going, adores his keyworker and talks about nothing else. I should add that this is a compltely different playgroup to the first so I think his happiness now is a combination of greater maturity and a different setting.I absolutely disagree with the comment that if he doesn't get used to leaving you now, you will only go through it again when he starts school. He might just not be ready. My boy still talks(18 months on ) about how unhappy he was at the first playgroup and how much he cried. I now feel guilty that I persevered for as long as I did (about 5 weeks) when I should have been led by and respected his individual needs and not by the pressure from today's society to institutionalise our children at the earliest possible opportunity.In his book Raising Boys, Steve Biddulph asserts that boys generally have far greater separation anxiety than girls and he recommends if at all possible leaving it until they are three years old (page 11)

I also think that it isn't worth persisting if your child is patently unhappy at going to playgroup or whatever. A break of three months and/or a change of nursery can make a huge difference. As for the comment that if a child doesn't get used to leaving you now you'll go through the same thing when he goes to school - what total rubbish!! A child is generally at least two years older by the time they go to school and has matured an enormous amount in that time.

You really need to trust your judgement. Don't worry about DH thinking you're too soft, as you said yourself he's not witnessing the upset. I work as an educational psychologist and IMO delaying playgroup until your DS is ready will do no harm. Boys tend to be slower to mature emotionally so there's really no need to push him. Why does your DH think he should go to the group, esp as he won't have to go to school for some time? Does he worry that your son is going to be a "mummy's boy"? You'd be surprised how many people still think in these terms.

Can't say much more except that you know your son, and I can't believe the current situation is doing much for either of you.

Monkey, I think I'd agree with what others have said - maybe he needs to wait a few months and try a different playgroup. It has to be right for both parent and child. I really hope your dh's attitude does not make either of you feel that this has been a "failure". Children are ready for things, when they are ready. The playgroup are almost bound to have a waiting list so should not hassle you about withdrawing him, and moreover, as these things are often parent-run, they should be professional and sympathetic about your reasons for withdrawing him. Good luck.