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Original poster

Boss setting up team meetings for times that I'm not available

103 replies

HerdingSquirrels · 10/02/2015 14:41

What to do about it, that's the question. My boss arranges all team meetings for 4.30 or 5pm, or for days that I'm not working. Not intentional on my boss' part, I don't think (boss is in the US, the team are in the UK). I have to leave at 4.30 to pick up my child from the childminders, meaning I can't make the meetings. I've explained the situation and asked if they be rescheduled but my boss says it's not possible. Anyone else been in this situation? How did you resolve it?

OP posts:
TeenageMutantNinjaTurtle · 10/02/2015 21:02

My contracted hours are 7.30-4 and I am a higher rate tax payer. There is no way I would offer to attend a regular meeting outside of those hours. Doing it for one regular meeting implies you are available at that time regularly and it's no time at all before people start taking the piss!

I agreed with my boss (US as well) that I would only be available from 4pm-7pm for exceptional circumstances but that I was happy to do calls after 7pm from home whenever required.

For regular team meetings I volunteer to own them so I get to "find a time that works for everyone"

There are some meetings I can never make. I send one of my team on my behalf (well briefed) but if there is something I feel really strongly about I tend to dial in and lurk to make sure the right things are said.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 10/02/2015 21:03

Why is your DH's job less flexible? I thought it was his commute that was the issue?

AKnickerfulOfMenace · 10/02/2015 21:07

If you have previously been flexible she may not realise that you now can't be.

Original poster
HerdingSquirrels · 10/02/2015 21:10

I need to be at the meetings as it's my only opportunity to find out what is going on across the company and influence direction of the team. Hence not feeling respected.

I should add that the boss has recently moved to the US. Meeting times obviously weren't a problem when my boss was here. It's an organisation problem really; it's bonkers to be leading a uk team from the US when the team has no US focus.

OP posts:
Original poster
HerdingSquirrels · 10/02/2015 21:12

Good point, AKnickerful.

OP posts:
travailtotravel · 10/02/2015 21:14

Aside from working from home can you also record the meetings you can't make, so that you can listen back during your working hours?

meandjulio · 10/02/2015 21:14

I'd agree Knickerful - really bad idea to be that 'flexible' in the first place - it's never remembered or appreciated, all that happens is they complain if you can no longer work unpaid at their convenience.

I'd regard the senior manager (higher paid, after all) as the one who should be flexible if they have to be.

And yes, I'd consider it better to work unpaid in the evenings than to work unpaid at the weekends, but they are both fairly shit tbh and not anything that I am prepared to have meetings SCHEDULED for. Eastern standard time at 9am is GMT 2pm. What's wrong with 2pm team meetings?

Original poster
HerdingSquirrels · 10/02/2015 21:15

DH self employed. Work was quiet, he could sometimes get back early or would work from home. Now his days are packed full and rarely works from home.

OP posts:
rookiemere · 10/02/2015 21:21

Ah ok - I thought making it any earlier than 4.30pm would make it stupidly early in the US, if it's not and it's not a business reason that the US person is in the US then I suppose it's different.

bluelamp · 10/02/2015 21:27

You're in a similar situation to me, I have regular telecons that go past my usual finish time (in my case with customers). DH works part time so I try and have as many as possible on the day he is at home (other days I have 4.30-5.00 blocked out) but this week we are swapping drop off and pick up twice to accomodate my telecons. DH has to leave early (>1h commute) to pick the kids up which is not ideal, he works from home in the evenings quite a bit to make up for it. I've made it clear I can't attend telecons after my normal hours without at least 24h notice and explain it in terms of the impact on DH rather than the kids which gets a bit less eyerolling.

Your case is different because it's your manager. Would it be easier to have the telecons much later so your DC are in bed, it would be the middle of the day for your boss if she is West Coast? Do you use Google for your calenders? There's an option in Labs that allows you to automatically decline meetings on your day off, I do that which makes it really clear to people why, they immediately get a decline with the message 'automatically declined due to event conflict'.

I do think working out of your normal hours is inevitable in an international business and agree the more senior you are the more flexible you have to be, junior people get paid overtime. I've had regular very early morning telecons with people in Asia (in their normal working day) and America (late in their evening). It's not great but we arranged them for a time that had an impact on the fewest number of people, which I think your boss should probably consider.

meandjulio · 10/02/2015 21:32

How big is the team meeting OP? Is it one person in America and the whole team in the UK?

Koalafications · 10/02/2015 21:45

junior people get paid overtime

Grin not where I work!

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 10/02/2015 21:55

Ah I see. If it's an East Coast business there is no reason why meetings can't happen within your hours.

Original poster
HerdingSquirrels · 10/02/2015 21:55

Good idea about explaining it in terms of DH impact.

Yes I could do later calls but the rest of the team won't want to (and I wouldn't expect them to work out of hours just for me!). My boss has planned the meeting to impact the fewest people, ie just 1 person impacted, but that 1 person is always me.

OP posts:
Original poster
HerdingSquirrels · 10/02/2015 22:01

What it boils down to is that I am way down in my boss' pecking order and priorities. Which feels pretty shit. I don't expect the world to rearrange itself for me, but it would be nice to have some acknowledgment that my input is valued.

OP posts:
AKnickerfulOfMenace · 10/02/2015 22:05

Is she permanently in the US now?

JeanSeberg · 10/02/2015 22:39

Really Jean? Why? Or rather, why would the solution not be 'I would be pleased to attend meetings during my working hours'?

Fine. Just don't expect it to work the other way round when you need time off for medical appointments, dentist, school meetings, to re-arrange childcare, car problems etc etc. I'm afraid I take a dim view of people who quote their hours at me and never ever show any flexibility.

Flexibility works both ways, a bit of give and take on both sides makes working life much more pleasant.

meandjulio · 10/02/2015 22:46

A bit of give and take is fine. This is talking about two meetings a week scheduled out of hours - I think that is different.

Hester, I'm still mystified as to why this is necessary at all? Are there members of the team who start work at 4.30pm? What exactly are your boss's working hours?

AKnickerfulOfMenace · 10/02/2015 22:58

Jean, this is just as much outside the OP's hours as arranging a regular call on a Saturday morning would be. It doesn't sound like this is a one off like a dentist appointment would be.

JeanSeberg · 10/02/2015 23:13

My reply was in answer to someone saying 'I will do x during my working hours.'

I've not said she should attend every meeting. Just that there are more helpful ways to answer the question than a flat no eg offering to prepare a PowerPoint update of current tasks for the boss to review, suggesting a monthly call at a time she can make outside of core hours. And staying half an hour late is nothing like working at the weekend.

TeenageMutantNinjaTurtle · 10/02/2015 23:15

What is the point of allowing someone flexible hours if you then ask them to change them twice a week, every week. That's ludicrous. And yes, it's the same as asking 9-5 employees to have a conf call at 8pm every Tuesday and Thursday (for instance). Can you imagine!?!

AKnickerfulOfMenace · 10/02/2015 23:18

If your life and childcare is set up around 8-430 working hours, it is just as inconvenient for you personally as a weekend and possibly more so as you have another parent at hand.

If you have no outside responsibilities, I agree that an extra half hour in the evening is better.

That said, if this can be set up regularly on a Wed or whatever (ie not 1630 tue one week, 1630 thu the next week) OP may be able to accommodate this by swapping with DH, getting a friend to collect kids in return for doing it another day or whatever.

EBearhug · 10/02/2015 23:43

I have meetings with the US - east coast, west coast and in the mountains, so about 5 hours time zones between them, let alone 2 in EMEA. Anyway, one meeting is 18:30 UK time, 19:30 for Germany, and one of the Germans asked if we could change the time, as it's really inconvenient for her.

I felt quite guilty when the Americans were discussing, "What time's that with you? Can you do seven thirty in the morning?" as that's way more inconvenient to my mind than seven thirty in the evening is. We're compromising (we also have to accommodate AsiaPacific), so one week it will be a good time for us, another it will be a good time for Hong Kong, and it will vary for the people in the USA. The calls are also recorded, so people can catch up if they want. (I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure I'll feel that dedicated...)

I think the big difference is that we recognised the problem and discussed it with each other, we were all willing to compromise to accommodate the others, and it felt like a team decision. If you can't have that sort of conversation, then your problems are bigger than just meeting timings. If you think you might not know even after that, I'd suggest sending a mail afterwards to state what you think was agreed, or asking for clarification if you're really not at all sure.

flowery · 11/02/2015 06:39

"I have made huge efforts to make as many of the meetings as I can, but can no longer do so as DH is now less flexible with his work."

This is one of the reasons some employers have a problem with working mothers.
Showing some flexibility and making some of the meetings was a reasonable compromise. The message you are now sending is that you can no longer show flexibility because DHs job is more important.

I have sympathy, I know it's hard, and hopefully you can come to an arrangement by talking to your boss.

insancerre · 11/02/2015 06:48

But you could male the meeting as you have till 6pm to collect from the cm
I don't see the problem
If you stay late for a meeting one day can you not just leave early the next?

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