Nick Clegg event on family friendly working - TODAY

[KatieMumsnet]

As the right for all employees to request flexible working (rather than only for parents or those with caring responsibilities) passes into law today, Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg will be joining an event of London-based Mumsnet and Gransnet users later today to discuss the issue.

You can read more from Nick Clegg on the right to request flexible working, childcare and shared parental leave here, and there’s more about Mumsnet's Family Friendly programme here.

MNHQ will be live-blogging from the event on the thread below, and JustineMumsnet will be at the event putting questions from this thread to the Deputy Prime Minister. So if you've got a question for Nick Clegg on family-friendly working, please do post it below.

How can you realistically balance flexible working with business need? I work in a small team if I don't turn up for work I leave someone to work a double 14+ Hour on their own, no break. We do not have the staffing or funding to have back up team members hence working in a house of cards. This is a government department I refer to.

@LocalEditorWandsworth

I'm worried that extending the right to flexible working to everyone but will make it harder for parents and carers to actually make successful requests in the short-term.

Doesn't it make it impossible for employers to prioritise requests from parents now?

For example, if I asked to start work an hour late after first dropping my children at school, I would now have to compete with any of my colleagues who wanted to do the same whatever their reason - training at the gym, doing a college course or possibly even simply wanting a less busy commute. This doesn't seem fair when the parent's request is borne of necessity not choice.

I appreciate that it should be possible for all employees to work flexibly, but this is a very long way off and in the short term at least I cannot see this leading to more flexible working opportunities, just greater competition for them.

Jo: 'I think this is a bit of a false argument. It kinda assumes that everyone will want exactly the same request. I just don't buy this idea that there's one defined pool of flexibility that once it's used up, it's gone.

@edamsavestheday

I suppose in general it's a good thing to extend it from parents/carers to all to stop jealousy but forgive me for being grumpy about it... companies like my employer are still able to be 19th Century curmudgeons who completely refuse to even think about it. I know one woman who applied to start half an hour later than general office hours and was turned down, FFS - and I know her job could have been done perfectly well with a 9.30 start. There is NO working from home ever, not even when there's a major transport crisis (that day when the entire rail network was down? Had to take annual leave). This is an office job, not a shop or somewhere where you need to be there to handle the public.

What can be done to stop unreasonable employers who just Do Not Do flexible working At All, even for parents, much less anyone else?

NIck: I like to think the more we set the terms of the debate, as we've sort to today, as Jo as on the media today, that there's a reasonable expectation that people will be treated as grown ups, and that unreasonable employers will feel out on their own and identified as so by their employers. It's about unleashing contagious good practice.

Jo: Employers do have a legal obligation, and ultimately it can be part of a tribunal. Want to avoid this as end point, but ACAS can give good advice of how to move forward.

I'm very clear that if in subsequent years it's not being taken up, we (the lib dems) then think we should move to the Scandinavian and German 'use it or lose it model'

Can Nick clarify how long the "use it or lose it" time period would be, and when he/the lib Dems would be pushing for this to come into force?

Here's a pic of CariGransnet asking Nick about flex working for older people.

Could we suggest that we make it compulsory for larger companies and organisations to publish their flexible working stats e.g. how many flexible working requests have they received, and what percentage of these have they accepted or rejected. They could do this as part of their Corporate Social Responsibility reporting.

This would give companies an incentive to consider requests for flexible working properly, and would also inform prospective employees about the attitude to flexible working within those companies.

Nice pic Rowan.

It's a difficult one because as a former Health professional I recall many parents working who felt that their right to both flexible hours and preferential treatment because they were parents and this did cause conflict. For example at Christmas, other holidays and school breaks, many parent nurses, doctors and PAMs expected their request for leave to take priority because they were parents- somehow having children meant that their time at home was more meaningful or valid.

( I am a parent BTW who never expected to have Christmas off because I had children.)

How will this extend to non parents who might need flexible working too?

And how do we mitigate the effects of flexible working becoming inflexible for those still at the coal face? What can so often happen is that those of us with older children or no children are left managing in a working environment that may be sub manned or not firing on all cylinders because the gap between what management think they are providing (flex working and adequate staffing) and what the real working situation is, tends to be rather large.

Rosamund, Evening Standard. What would you like to change about the culture of parliament?

Nick 'Everything. I despair sometimes about how totally out of step with modern life politics appears. Look at PMQ, there's this brilliant petition from MN attracting thousands of signatures. When will it be that PMQs is on at a time when people can actually watch it, when other people can ask questions, when there's much less of a Punch and Judy. You can't even call people by their name.

The whole thing is in a language not used since 1867, highly aggressive, testosterone, chest beating culture, which puts most normal people off.

I've tried, but haven't succeeded, my own view is every time the Westminster establishment fails to reforms itself, there is another nail in the confirm in publih interest and public confidence and you make a later crisis in confidence, that will come much much worse.

And I would always argue that having children is not a necessity- it is as much a choice as any other. I have never seen my child rearing needs as more important than those of the child free. Nor is my time any more valuable.

That of course doesn't mean I am not sympathetic to people who end up in a pickle because their child care arrangements go belly up or whom are single parents doing the job of both. The work place has such a tricky job, balancing the needs and wants of both.

Thanks for the answer but I think it is naïve to think that employers are going to suddenly allow far more employees to work flexibly.

Even when the right to request flexible working was limited to parents and carers - mothers have had far more success than others with requests (with only 1 in 10 requests refused whereas for fathers it was 1 in 5).

This can't be because there is more of a business case for fathers needing to be actually on work premises than mothers. It is because employers feel their businesses can only support a certain amount of flexible working.

Squizita yeah good point. Men get a raw deal in this too. I'm all for flexible working. I just want the debate about family friendly working to include childcare cost too

Louise: I had a baby 9 months ago and had a flexible working request from a school turned down. I had to resign from my job as I was only offered full-time or nothing. I want to be in a school using the skills I've built up. What will you do to bring flexible working for the education sector.

Nick: Continuity of teachers is really important and it will vary massively. Many, many teachers do work flexibly, although it can be difficult. I think it will be much more easier to accommodate in certain roles and more difficult in some teaching or leadership roles.

Jo: RIght to identify schools as one of the areas where culture change is needed. It's actually about piloting things, trying things out and seeing what is working. Part time roles, even in senior roles can be very effective. As a country we have a long way to go, I hop we'll get this cultural change, and this is part of the process.

Nick: I'm struck when talking to Dutch family, how much job-sharing is part of what happens. A highly competitive economy, but people as a matter of course share jobs and aren't intimidated by doing that.

I think it can be wrong to think everyone's request is completely equal though?
For example I was reasonably happy to work on Christmas Day - and certainly a late on New Year's day - as a student nurse in my early twenties was no real trouble.
These days with teenagers it would be harder for us all, more so when children are younger and it can be difficult (especially for young DC) to see these celebrations as a moveable feast ?!

@minipie

I'm very clear that if in subsequent years it's not being taken up, we (the lib dems) then think we should move to the Scandinavian and German 'use it or lose it model'

Can Nick clarify how long the "use it or lose it" time period would be, and when he/the lib Dems would be pushing for this to come into force?

Nick : I'n Germany it's an incentive. How long is a matter for debate. We didn't incorporate as our coalition partners didn't want to go that further step, we'll review after they come into affect, two years later. If the take up is well below what we'd hope it would be, we'll consider using some kind of 'use it or lose it'

Trouble is, it was always the parents who expected time off at Christmas (and usually the same parents each year who'd be the most vocal, about it).

When you are managing a team of fifty staff, they all are equally deserving of time off at Christmas whether they have kids or not. Otherwise you get into the 'well your kids aren't old enough to know it is Christmas' type arguments. It doesn't have to be a movable feast, more the case that it was often the parent who most wanted not to miss it.

I just don't agree that being a parent automatically confers upon you privileges by dint of that- parents should have access to great low cost and high quality child care, help with accessing such child care and tax rebates for the cost of raising the next generation of workers BUT having priority for time off on public holidays? Not necessarily.

If there was more carrot and less stick though about working on public holidays the problem might be easier to solve.

For example I was glad to work a Sunday shift, or as I said a late on New Year's day, as we were paid time and two thirds, so it was worthwhile for us younger people who didn't have other family commitments. Christmas is always going to be more tricky though I understand that.

Nevertheless everything has it's price!

Thanks for answering

Me2Me2 It's not the men that have the issue when the mum earns more though... the problem is what the hell is the mum supposed to do? She can't go part time (or there's no money), but as a couple they can't get working hours to work for them..? And it's all tied up in this idea that she's probably a bad over-ambitious non-maternal mum on top. Incredibly stressful.

Are employers allowed to be influenced by their worker's reasons for making a request to work flexibly e.g. I am allowing Bob to start at 9.30 because he has to wait for his mum's carer which will mean that Jane who is looking after her sick cat will have to start at 9?

It is because employers feel their businesses can only support a certain amount of flexible working. ...and that flexible working in their mind 'belongs' in the female camp. Because females are mummies and they aught to stay home (with the silent assumption they earn less anyway).

Which is a massive, massive issue for any woman in a partnership where the woman either cannot work flexibly for practical reasons (e.g. she's a HCP or teacher or prison-guard or self-employed) but her partner can.

1 in 5 Men being turned down for flexi-time compared to 1 in 10 women harms women's employment and harms family incomes ... it's not 'what about the menz' it's actually 'no matter what it says on paper, mums need to be at home and dads at work'.

Maybe more women are already working for more family friendly employers though squizita for example in the service industry?

So, regarding the 1 in 5 requests against 1 in 10 requests accepted thing it might be hard to fairly analyse all the reasons for that?

The event has wrapped up now. Thanks so much for all of your questions and sorry to anyone whose question went unanswered.

Well yes squizita if the woman is the higher earner then the situation is exacerbated. So flex working should be equally granted to men and women

In reality, when you have young kids at least one parent has to go part time or have a less demanding job time-wise.

But if childcare was cheaper this wouldn't be the case.

Me2Me2 yes... there's always going to be one parent doing more childcare. But the default/culture is SO based on this being the woman it creates a vicious cycle: women are paid less (because they go part time and employers avoid promoting) because they often take career breaks or go part time... meaning they are the ones who usually (financially) take breaks or go part time... leading to more of the same.
When my husband asked about flexi working, (female, interestingly) staff had to check it said 'parent' not 'mum' on their legal documents, luckily his boss is a family man and was very supportive indeed.