How serious is falsifying notes in a hr file?

[Madamecastafiore]

Just wondering.

Long running dispute.

There are notes in my HR file that are lies.

Dated and signed mentioning my pregnancy and the fact that it had been known about for quite a while.

It's a moan about lateness amongst other things. I was stopping to vomit in lay by on way to work!

Problem is it's signed and dated February when I didn't get pregnant until March so pretty indisputable evidence that note was falsified. Typed and signed and dated much later.

Is this a serious offence?

Yes, sounds pretty serious to me.

Who is it signed by?

Very strange and yes, I'd consider that serious.

Madame, I think you've just struck treasure.

IIRC you're in the middle of a very nasty dispute, aren't you? In which people have been backing each other up against you?

This may be your silver bullet. It's objective proof that the employer has been up to something, and is prepared to lie.

DO NOT SHOW YOUR HAND. Don't mention this to the employer till you need to use it. Make sure you have a hard copy.

Take advice on it. And produce it when you need to in front of a tribunal or in written legal communications. You need this and their response to be fully on the record with no wiggle room whatsoever.

Thanks everyone.

Yes am hoping this is my trump card although would not be surprised if they say it's a mistake and dated wrongly.

There are a few things, alleging I looked at people I knows medical records when the area I work in is quite specialised and I donor know anyone outside of my work who is open to this service.

Also that I have disclosed information about pay etc from our hr system that the lying cow who is alleging it hasn't thought to check whether I can access and I can't!

The good thing is is that it states that the manager who has thrown me under the bus is also implicated as it states they she passed these notes to the person doing the investigation

They unleashed the beast in lying about me. I am over being anxious and upset and am fecking apoplectic with rage and will not be letting go of this.

Thanks all for your support and advice through this.

If she's the sort to embellish on the hoof - and it sounds like she is - you could get her to bluster in front of the tribunal about how she remembers the circumstances really clearly, and always takes accurate and timely notes.

Asking why no action was taken at the time the complaint was filed, might be a nice open question with several fathoms of rope...

But IANALawyer or HR person, so do take the advice of those who are.

Have you considered a Subject Access request under the Data Protection Act, to see what else you can get your mitts on?

She most certainly isn't clever enough to be a master criminal mastermind.

To say you think the word Paki is appropriate language because your mates who are Pakistani call you whitey in this day and age I think proves that!

I feel incredibly sad that after all my hard work and dedication the organisation was happy to roll me rather than take action!

Oooh, now you're sounding more cheerful!

If these are medical matters, aren't there work systems set up to log every access? Time-stamped, ID-stamped, even for a mere view? I've definitely read elsewhere on MN about such set-ups for medical records, and that's as it should be! Your IT department should be asked to provide evidence, in any tribunal situation.

What you are talking about, though, is not just accessing data inappropriately, but falsifying and post-dating it. There's no defensible reason for them to do such things; even incompetence and "backlog" are not an adequate defence. I agree with PartialFancy, that it shows a pattern of behaviour to your detriment, from your employers.

Pattern of behaviour to my detriment is a good line. Going to squirrel that one away!

Just going through report further and the saying that they didn't investigate allegations as is was pregnant and they didn't want to causer any more stress.

Me thinks is because they would not have been able to find the evils not guilty of victimisation if they investigated properly!

it says in my contract that falsifying any documents would be classed as gross misconduct and would be instant dismissal
good luck with your tribunal

I live in hope!!

Thank you.

Bollocks do you let serious misconduct, such as they allege, slide just because someone is pregnant (especially as you weren't actually pregnant, if I understand correctly).

It's not just one thing they're alleging, either: they're alleging that you are/were a snooping, vindictive (you are complaining about them now, you see) skiver. Why would they allow that sort of person to continue working, endangering the confidentiality of their service users and causing trouble by gossiping about confidential HR issues?! Especially as they have all this "evidence" about you, dated so long ago! No employer/organisation could admit having let that sort of thing go on, or they would be sued or fined. Therefore, it must be lies.

(If you're a Doctor Who fan, do you remember the Vampires of Venice, when the Doctor wonders how bad the truth must be, for a convent of vampires to be a cover-up story?!)

But what can I do if they refuse to answer these questions? Do I just lodge another grievance? I cannot believe what they are saying either and that is why I am so bloody crazy abut all of this. I just can't believe it is happening. I have always thought joining a union was a waste of time but that was before I realised what a complete parallel universe working I the public sector is!

You're no longer expecting any justice through the employer, correct?

So they are no longer your audience. Your ultimate audience is the tribunal. (Or other external arbiter.) Always keep at the back of your mind, "How will this look to the judge?"

If you're still enmeshed in the employer's complaints process, you need to make sure you do everything by the book.

Obvs if you do get a result through the internal process, that's great. But if it's going badly, see it as demonstrating you've correctly gone through the process. NB This is essential, because IIRC a tribunal won't be judging are the employers are nice people but have they correctly carried out their internal process.

(Sorry, you need much more expert advice than my bletherings from helping friend with similar. plu's questions strike me as the sort of thing you might keep in your pocket till tribunal, to put the employer on the spot. But you do need advice about this.)

Thank you.

No, will get no where with employer. Am expecting to be closed down totally in the meeting. I would be surprised if she even deems to answer my questions at all let alone allow me to get a word in edge ways.

How do go about escalating this to a tribunal?

I have been given all different advice but the majority of it saying that I won't get anywhere and there is no point I pursuing this.

I just want to clear my name and have the people who are lying admit their lies and be taken to account.

I just really don't get how people can make allegations about me and me not be able to answer those. They are totally ignoring them other than to say that taking things further would've have caused me more upset during my pregnancy.

I am looking at going to work I the private sector but will have to pay back the extra maternity pay which sticks I yo throat because it is because of all of this shit that I won't be going back probably.

Don't watch Doctor Who but sometimes I wish I had a time machine. I'd go back and not say anything about the racism. I won't be standing up for the greater good ever again I think. This has changed me asa person entirely.

It might be that you shouldn't ask those questions in the meeting, and shouldn't show your hand about the non-matching dates, but just state that their allegations aren't true.

It would just give them time to mess with the files again.

What do you expect to happen after the meeting? That will determine where you can take it next.

I really hope flowery or someone who knows this stuff comes back, because you need proper input.

I haven't had to raise a grievance on my own (union member - ), but presume the organisation's own grievance policy would include information on next steps. If that information is not included in the policy, they are, again, incompetent wankers, and you could ask ACAS what to do about the next step, since they can't block you for claiming that right, even through wilful ignorance of it!

I understand that legal cover is included in some household insurance packages, so perhaps you could see about using it to consult an employment lawyer.

You mentioned the business of paying back maternity pay, and that actually sounds a good negotiating offer, for when they are faced with a solicitor's list of their (rather serious) misdemeanours. If a solicitor thinks your case is even better, you shouldn't even have to accept that as a compromise, but receive it as a right - you shouldn't have to pay for being victimised and lied about/ being a whistleblower.

I can't remember anything specific, (since I don't stalk you ), but think I have always had a fairly positive view of you as a poster. I admire you for speaking out against racism, and it would be a shame if bastard treatment turned you.

I raised a grievance about the racism, they said she didn't understand was causing offence so ho him, nothing done.

Raised grievance about victimisation (although didn't quite know the extent of their allegations) basically told I have no case.

Maybe only way to go would be to wait till after meeting and raise3 more grievances, against the 2 who have told lies and falsified things and the manager who it mentions passed the false file note to HR.

Sorry for waffling, I am taking note of what you guys are saying, just trying to process everything.

Thanks for the nice last bit. I can be opinionated but have decent morals I have always thought, sometimes I get a bit sweaty too but hey ho I feel like getting tucking stabby at the moment!

Hi MadameC just jumping in to say your name is familiar to me as a regular who usually says sensible and/or funny things... therefore although I have absolutely no knowledge of your case or any expert (or even inexpert) knowledge of HR, I'm waving pompoms for you!

Go Team MadameC!

Bless you. Thank you.

Just wanted to go back to something PartialFancy picked up on, as it's something I neglected to say: yes, I did indeed mean all those questions to be addressed to someone else, and was assuming it had got/ would get to the point of saying this in front of third parties, even if those are only your solicitor and theirsolicitor. Sorry I hadn't specified that, and thanks to Partial for highlighting that.

Presumably, as it's public sector, thrse people do answer to a higher power/structure?

Thank you Plu.

It seems that there is no higher power, they are a law unto themselves. I went to HR director and was told off as was outside equality and diversity policy!