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Original poster

DH has been dismissed for gross misconduct... what next?

127 replies

carrottyjuice · 25/02/2014 21:47

Hi all, I really hope someone can give us some advice. I'm a bit of a nervous wreck at the moment. I've been a SAHM for 11 years, with 3 DCs. Having had my first child very young, I have had little work experience, and all of them in entry-level positions, so don't have a CV to speak of. We've always relied on DH's income, which was decent enough, but today things changed, as during a disciplinary meeting, he was dismissed straight away for gross misconduct.

This was due to an incident where he failed to inform his manager of an issue as well as deliberate falsification of documents to cover up the issue. This was when he was made to work 9 days consecutively without off days, and on that particular day, he worked for 24 hours (yes, 24 hours) and was so knackered at the end of that, that when the issue arose, he chose to falsify records so he could come home to catch some rest.

He admitted all the charges against me and stressed to the hearing that he was overworked and tired when he made the mistake, due to working an extra night, weekend shifts and call outs without overtime pay due to a colleague being on long term sickness. These haphazard working hours have been going on since his colleague went off on sick leave round about a year ago.

They dismissed him today, reason being a breakdown of trust, as he was a supervisor. He's read somewhere that if he is dependant on drugs, they can not sack him but must get him into rehab while allowing him to keep his job. He has been a regular cannabis smoker for the past year since his job shift patterns changed to accomodate his long term sick colleague, because he was so stressed out with all the extra work, he needed help to sleep.

It's not the right thing to do, I know, and he feels really remorseful for the way things have turned out. Not that the cannabis was a main reason why he did what he did, but it could have played a part. He's wondering if he could appeal his dismissal raising the cannabis dependency issue as a reason, and thereby have a shot at keeping his job, while he actually goes looking for a new one? He has not been happy for the past year. Our family life has suffered a lot because he was always on call, doing shift work (when he shouldn't, because his contract states his job hours should really be 9 to 5 Monday to Friday)...

Do you think he has a chance of winning his appeal and keeping his job and getting rehab from the company?

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Original poster
carrottyjuice · 27/02/2014 11:54

Is it a good idea? Or will it jeopardise his position in appeals even more?

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Original poster
carrottyjuice · 27/02/2014 11:55

Because right now as things stand, I really think 20 k a year is still better than going on benefits, hoping to get hired in entry level jobs... we're not that young anymore.

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iseenodust · 27/02/2014 11:57

Do not call his manager. It would be humiliating for your DH. You've both got to face up to the consequences unfortunately.

Original poster
carrottyjuice · 27/02/2014 11:57

He's already expressed a lot of regret during the hearing. He even broke down in tears. He promised never to do it again. He stressed his good service time and again. Yet they still decided to sack him. If it's about the money (cost cutting), then I am thinking if I beg for his manager to reinstate him, maybe even demote him, with a much lower pay, might be an option worth considering. But what do you think?

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flowery · 27/02/2014 11:59

I'm assuming you are not thinking of calling his manager yourself, as that would be a really bad idea.

He needs to put in an appeal as has been said, and try and get the sanction reduced to a final written warning, and yes he could ask whether a demotion to a position where there is not as much responsibility would be something they'd consider.

Original poster
carrottyjuice · 27/02/2014 11:59

He has already been humiliated. What can be worse? If we have to struggle so much on benefits and beg for food or money from friends and family, thaT's also humiliating..

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JuliaScurr · 27/02/2014 12:00

www.worksmart.org.uk/rights/losing_your_job

any help?

good luck

flowery · 27/02/2014 12:01

It's not that it's not an option worth considering, but if he wants that he needs to ask, not you.

iseenodust · 27/02/2014 12:06

Because overwrought emotional woman on the end of a phone is not going to help his cause. I appreciate you will be in shock and now you need to be clear-minded. There are suggestions on here to help with an appeal which is following company process and may have a glimmer of a chance.

PeterParkerSays · 27/02/2014 12:20

Please don't call his manager. Whatever the circumstances this guy deliberately falsified records so that a product was produced with a product on the ingredients label missing. If you were a manager why would you take this person back on, even at a much reduced salary? They will have had to destroy recently produced stock to ensure that product without the vitamin doesn't reach the shelves.

I am a manager with a situation where we've also just dismissed someone for gross misconduct of a similar gravity to that of your husband. If the spouse phoned me and begged for their job back, they would get a long and detailed explanation as to why hell would freeze over before I'd let that person back into our building. Do not do that to yourself.

Original poster
carrottyjuice · 27/02/2014 12:29

I've just been to CAB. Been told he will be sanctioned for up to 3 years from JSA for being dismissed this way. I can't apply for myself as it has to be a joint application. I'm so stuck now. Going to see an employment lawyer recommended by the CAB now.

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Original poster
carrottyjuice · 27/02/2014 12:30

If we can't get JSA we're just... I don't know how we'd survive.

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Original poster
carrottyjuice · 27/02/2014 12:36

Can't get JSA means can't get Housing Benefit of anything. I don't know what to do.

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Original poster
carrottyjuice · 27/02/2014 12:48

DH just told me he's still covered by life insurance (even though yesterday he cancelled it) and if he committed suicide it'd pay out. I told Hun don't be silly but I'm really worried now.

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MyCatIsFat · 27/02/2014 13:03

Have you looked into income support?

Falsifying records is so serious that they simply could not have him back. But I doubt if they would want the publicity of an Employment Tribunal either as that would expose it's poor working practices and poor production quality assurance.

A lawyer could probably negoiate an agreed termination of contract. If you have house insurance you may find you have legal cover that allows you to speak to a solicitor about anything, including employment issues.

CinnabarRed · 27/02/2014 13:09

But the way they did it was heavy handed, as his previous boss allowed that to happen [key, legally required ingredient to be excluded from production] under stressful conditions

This sounds terrible. Does your DH have any evidence of this? Because that might be a bargaining chip to use too.

Dinosaursareextinct · 27/02/2014 13:19

I can understand your desperation.

  1. Put work into producing the best appeal you can. This can include his offering to take on a position with less responsibility and pay, with a final written warning. You can put things in writing if you think he would forget something at the hearing, and let the company have the paperwork prior to or at the hearing (have a look at any written procedure). Consider whether he should be accompanied at the hearing.
  2. Get started, both of you, with job applications. Contact friends and families in case they know of any jobs going and can recommend you. Do anything rather than nothing - you can always look for something better later on.
  3. Consider any form of self-employment you might be able go start up.
  4. The possibility of working in the Middle East is a good one - likely to be v well paid.
  5. Think of any way you can to obtain a decent reference for your DH, eg you could if necessary accept this for not bringing a tribunal claim (get advice / speak to ACAS). They will probably insist on mentioning the dismissal, but could at least include all the good things he did before this one-off mistake.
  6. There is no point in getting desperate yet - there are 2 of you, and if you work hard there is a good chance that one of you will be in employment soon. Tell your DH that if you are the one to find work first he will need to look after the DCs. He is very much needed.
WanderingAway · 27/02/2014 13:26

Housing benefit and unemployment benefits are separate.

Our council let us apply for housing benefit based on income not what benefits we get. It would be worth applying anyway.

With regards to benefits, i think the sanctions start at 13 weeks and go to 3 years. Why cant u claim as a single person? My exh claimed for himself when i was working. That is however not going to support your family fully though.

Original poster
carrottyjuice · 27/02/2014 14:18

My council won't. They only pay HB if you claim JSA...

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Original poster
carrottyjuice · 27/02/2014 14:20

That's what I've been told anyway. It's all new rules as well regarding the 3 year sanction. I can't believe all that tax we've paid into the system counts for nothing. In fact the CAB said to us that even if my husband negotiates a resignation, they will still sanction him from JSA for a period of time.

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Original poster
carrottyjuice · 27/02/2014 14:24

I do realise also that it would be better if only one of us works as the cost of childcare for 3 kids is too expensive to make it worthwhile for both of us to work in low pay jobs. The HMRC told us they will only pay up to 70% of childcare costs.

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Original poster
carrottyjuice · 27/02/2014 14:28

So basically they now sanction JSA for people who resigned or who got dismissed. That's a lot of people isn't it? I wonder how they make ends meet like that, especially if their councils are like mine, not paying HB etc. if we don't get JSA. Also they told us we'd only get food vouchers for 3 days worth of food. That's hardly enough is it?

I'm just so disillusioned with the system now. Considering leaving the country... sounds crazy I know. But I just cannot bear the thought of my kids being homeless or not having food :( I really really hope we can move out of the country for a job. I feel so sad thinking about all the people shafted by this system :(

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Original poster
carrottyjuice · 27/02/2014 14:29

I don't know if we'd get the maximum of 3 years sanction for the JSA but I am not holding my hopes out.

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Original poster
carrottyjuice · 27/02/2014 14:34

There is no physical evidence of it happening before although everyone he works with knew that what DH got dismissed for used to be a practice that's allowed in his workplace. But now nobody at his workplace would go to a hearing with him or testify against him. I really would like to go with him but I think that's not allowed. DH is just getting eaten up there in that place facing those people by himself.

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Original poster
carrottyjuice · 27/02/2014 14:35

Well if people at work know about JSA sanctions if they were dismissed or resigned, I don't think they'd want to take the risk of being implicated in this, would they?

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