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Original poster

Can I refuse to go on a week long conference abroad?

40 replies

Monkeybar · 06/08/2006 21:35

Huge work dilemma. Have upset my sister, who was going to help DH with childcare while I was away on a conference overseas. DH horrenously busy at work at the mo, impossible for him to take time off (Farmer). I can't expect DH to do childcare plus work. Spoke to a friend in same company and she said that I can't me made to go away for a week and that lack of childcare for the reason given is legitimate. Am a bit worried that I could be sacked if I didn't go, and realise that not going doesn;t help the cause of other working mothers. That said, apparently other mums have missed overseas conferences before too and fro my situation this is giving about 6 weeks notice.

Anyone know where I stand legally?

OP posts:
Northerner · 06/08/2006 21:37

Tell them you can't go as there is no childacre in place. Say dh works till late evening. They can't anke you.

nicnack2 · 06/08/2006 21:39

would think that if it was written into your contract that you are required to go abroad for conferences etc it might be a prob.

Earlybird · 06/08/2006 21:43

Have you worked there a long time? What's your boss like, and how is your relationship with him/her? How long have you known about the conference, and how long until you're supposed to go? Company could think you've had plenty of notice to sort something out if you've known about it for a long time. Are you hoping to eventually be promoted? If so, you probably need to find a way to go to the conference.

Do you really think you might be sacked if you don't go? Sorry so many questions...

Original poster
Monkeybar · 06/08/2006 21:53

Have worked there 4.5 years, but just returned from mat leave in July. Boss is okay, but child free, but knows about fallout with sis as I told her last week when she said I sounded a bit down. Company haven't actually given ME dates, but it has been known about by employees for some time. Promotion doesn't bother me in the way it used to, and I realise that this could be a career limiting move!

Colleague said she thought that this constituted special circumstances - having a child does NOT affect my ability to do my job day to day, but a week away and out ofthe country at that is slightly different. Will check contract - think that it does say that sometimes outside of the normal 9-5 will be expected, but not sure if overseas conferences are mentioned. I know that for the young, childless among us, these things are seen as huge perks. I've been to enough to not enjoy the enforced timetabled socialising, and the overseas bit is, to me, less a perk than a huge waste of money on the part of the employer!!!! It's not as if it's a holiday, it's still working from 8.30am!!

OP posts:
Earlybird · 06/08/2006 22:09

So, you're saying that the dates are known but you haven't been directly informed personally? Do I understand your OP correctly that the conference is in 6 week's time? Maybe you should tell your boss you're having childcare trouble and wonder if your presence is absolutely necessary. See if she is understanding or reacts badly, and go from there. TBH, IMO that should be enough time for you to pursue alternative childcare arrangements.

If you need to be there, do you have other relatives or friends who could look after your children? Could you hire someone?

Original poster
Monkeybar · 06/08/2006 22:22

I realise that 6 weeks is quite a long time to arrange alternative childcare, but felt that this is in no way a certainty and that 6 weeks notice is giving the company time to potentially get a refund or re assign my place to someone else. There's always the last minute option of letting them know just before we're due to leave, but I would feel even less comfortable about doing that

OP posts:
Earlybird · 06/08/2006 22:26

Could you offer to be the person who "holds down the fort back at the office" while the rest of them are abroad? Clearly business will still need to be conducted, and clients will still call.

Original poster
Monkeybar · 18/08/2006 20:03

Had meeting with my (childless) boss who asked me if I was looking forward to conference. I asked if my attendance was compulsory and she said that she could ask HER boss but she knew what he'd say - that if I wasn't able to leave my 1 year old for a week, then I shouldn't have come back to work!! AT least I now know how SHE feels about it! My chances of reducing my hours are diminishing before my eyes!
What really riles me, is that another colleague (different boss) told me today that he is leaving a day early to attend a wedding.
Just a bit cross because I do like my job and the company I work for, but this may ultimately be the time to part company with them. If I'm honest, the thought of leaving my boy for a week fills me with dread.

OP posts:
Tinker · 18/08/2006 20:09

But how can you go if you simply have no childcare? It's not like finding a childminder/nursery for a few long days. This would be out of hours childcare, no?

MerlinsBeard · 18/08/2006 20:16

i haven;t left my 3 year old for a whole day never mind a week! Thats ridiculous and i would just refuse to go. no way would i leave my children with someone else for a week, abroad or otherwise. especially not at 1 year old.

sorry rant over

Original poster
Monkeybar · 18/08/2006 20:19

I've asked at my nursery and there are a couple of girls there (one of them is my / my son's favourite) who are prepare to coeme to my house afetr nursery and sort my boy out (either helping his dad, or in his absence). I'm comfortable with that because they know my ds, and can get him settled to sleep etc. I jsu hope it's not too busy for dh (during wheat harvest he was out 6am til midnight / 2am, so in no fit state to do anything).
This out of hours care will, of course, cost me a fortune and won't be reimbursed, but I don't see that I have a choice. Does make me wonder how a single parent would be treated, and how on earth ANY single working mother does it.

OP posts:
Tinker · 18/08/2006 20:22

Won't be reimbursed??????? Taking the piss. I'm sorry, this would make me so mad. I'd refuse but then realise I'm lucky enough to work in a sector where I can. I'm angry on your behalf. Would play on the upset this would cause your child.

Original poster
Monkeybar · 18/08/2006 20:22

Crossed post MoM. Hence the feeling of dread. DOesn;t help that another girl in my boss's team left her dd for a similar conference abroad at 8 months. But she's not really the motherly type IYKWIM, I can't wait to have another child, she says she never will.

OP posts:
edam · 18/08/2006 20:23

I think it's unreasonable if your bosses make a fuss about this - going abroad for a week is of a different order to working a few late nights. But then, many bosses are bloody unreasonable.... it's not 'I can't bear to leave my one year-old' that's the issue, it's the lack of childcare.

Original poster
Monkeybar · 18/08/2006 20:27

The trouble is, Tinker, that having spoken to HR who said I had to discuss it with my boss, adn having given plenty of notice to enable my flight etc to be allocated to someone else, I feel that I can't do anything BUT go if I want to keep my job. It's been made clear to me that I am expected to attend and that others before me have done so. I don't really want to go down the heavy handed legal route (I'm too much of a mouse for that, anyway!), but it did cross my mind that they may be breaking some sort of employment rule by enforcing this. It isn't a usual day to day thing in my job, but then it is an annual thing, so I suppose they could argue that I knew it would be expected of me

OP posts:
Tinker · 18/08/2006 20:29

Try and get sis's attention - she is really hot on employmnet law stuff. Good luck and boo to horrid employer.

Original poster
Monkeybar · 18/08/2006 20:36

Thanks Tinker

OP posts:
morningpaper · 18/08/2006 20:53

Most contracts have a clause saying that you may be expected to work abroad or in other places occasionally.

It's not fair is it?

sparklemagic · 18/08/2006 20:56

Monkeybar, this sounds OUTRAGEOUS, and I am stunned by the comment that if you can't leave your one year old for a week you shouldn't have come back to work!!! that is making my blood boil. They can expect you to fulfil your contract but they cannot dictate when you decide to leave your child and for how long.

Are you in a union? You can always ask a union for advice even if not a member.

And tbh, even if you have to 'swallow' this to keep the peace, I would use it as a learning experience and JOIN a union! They are there to make you stronger in this sort of position, even if only by making you better informed about your rights.

Free half hour consult with a solicitor?

To me, this would be HUGE. A week without mum is a long time to a one year old so you are not being silly not wanting to do it, I completely understand. Your employers sound dire. Very best of luck with it all...

Original poster
Monkeybar · 18/08/2006 21:14

Sparkle - I hadn't thought about a free solicitor consultation, might try and do that next week. I was a little taken aback by the 'shouldn't have come back to work' comment, I have to say.
I have looked at my contract and it does say that the job involves travelling for the company (but I'm a rep, so I travel for the company every working day). I suppose that it could be argued that an overseas conference comes under that heading?

I'll sleep on it and pursue it further next week. I am cross about it all, but fairly mousie with these sort of things. I'm not in a union, but maybe I should be!

OP posts:
WideWebWitch · 19/08/2006 09:03

My view is:

This is unacceptable, they don't OWN you and they are asking you to leave your family (and a ONE yo fgs!) for a week

Do you really want to continue working for people like this? I wouldn't be expected to do this and I'm in a reasonably senior position in a large company - this wouldn't be asked of me or, if it was, it would be voluntary. There are plenty of women at my level with children who would refuse

Check your contract AND contact the EOC for advice

Look for another job

That's what I'd do anyway, I think this request and their reaction to your perfectly reasonable comment is out of order. Poor you.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 19/08/2006 09:09

I suspect that, if they tried to enforce this, you could tackle them on the issue of sex discrimination. This being because the burden of childcare usually falls upon the woman and it is unreasonable to expect you to leave your child for a week or arrange such complicated childcare commitments and at your own expense.

Your job should not be in jeopardy, and if they suggest otherwise, then, you can suggest you have taken advice on it and have been advised of your rights and the precedents set by sex discrimination and unfair dismissal.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 19/08/2006 09:09

Sorry - forgot the very last word in my post "cases".

sparklemagic · 19/08/2006 10:00

totally agree with vvv about the sex discrimination thing.

And ok, so your contract states about travelling for the company but does it stipulate overnight stays? If not you are in an even stronger position I would think.

Do let us know how you get on.

puff · 19/08/2006 10:10

The pointed comment about not being able to leave your 1 yr old for a week is TOTALLY out of order because...........

this has nothing to do with you fretting about leaving your child, it's about the hard practicalities of finding childcare for a whole week.

for you, as they are deliberately trying to misunderstand the issue.

I used to do a lot of travelling/conferences - was childless myself, but a colleague had 2 small children and her dh was often working abroad. She only managed it because her mother lived close by and would always step in and stay for a few days etc. Not everyone has that luxury though.