Off sick but suspect employee gone on holiday

[fedupandtired]

Employee requested some annual leave but it wasn't authorised due to too many other people already off. Employee then phones in sick, says she's got a doctors note but a weeks passed and we've yet to receive it. On phoning employee her phone goes straight to voicemail each time.

This particular employee has been disciplined several times in the past over her sick record and since December not a month has gone by without her having some time off sick.

I strongly suspect she's gone ahead and gone on holiday but is there anything we can do? The type of work means that others have to cover and if they can't we have to get in agency which of course costs a fortune.

www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave

Flowery is absolutely right, you need to wait and see if a sick note materialises. If not, then disciplinary.

Even if she does produce a sick note, it sounds like her level of sickness absence is unsustainable, and I think you could take her through a capability process for this. You say that she hasn't had a month without sickness absence since December, and now she is off for another two weeks! What does your sickness absence policy say about recurrent absences? And what was she told at her previous disciplinary hearings? Was she given warnings? Targets for improvement? You need to be clear with her that her current level of absence is not sustainable, whether she has a certificate or not.

And I agree that your company needs to find a better way of getting access to reliable HR advice!!

Op why is it your responsibility ad not you manager?

I work in HR and wouldn't be paying her at all if she has no sick note. You definitly need an absence management policy, feel free to PM me if you want more info or help putting one together. Right now you can't do much but I would certainly be inviting her to an investigation meeting on her return to discuss such a high absence rate and to see why she is absent so often. It's important to get to the bottom of this as she may have an underlying condition and it may be that you can put some support in place for her to improve her attendance. It's equally important to find out the reasons to see if she is covered by the disability act as this will affect how you can or should be dealing with this going forward.

Again please feel free to PM me if you need anything, will be more than HTH if I can.

Cannot believe that about an unannounced visitor. Sometimes you are not fit to be at work, but can do other activities outside the house. I was once off with a bad back, and as a single parent I was the only one who could pick up ds. Also injuries benefit from exercise. I think that visiting thing is beyond the realms of normal requirements. Sounds more like bullying to me

She brought in the sick note today (on the day she would have been due back if her holiday had been authorised). Now we have the Fit Note we can look at her sickness levels in general.

Re. Whether or not its my job to be doing this - its a small company and the manager and I work closely when it comes to staff with ultimate responsibility falling to her, of course. I've taken on board what's been said and hopefully this issue won't arise again.

What if you're at the doctors / hospital during the 'unannounced' visit? Does someone sit outside their house all day with some binoculars & a bag of butties?

If the doctor has signed her off is there anything you can do? Surely if it warrants the doc signing her off (something that they are loathe to do normally) then what she does in that time off is none of the companies business and also not something that she can be disciplined for?

(Admit I know nothing about these situations but couldn't this penalise genuinely ill people)

Yes all this snooping/ checking up/trying to trap out someone who is signed off for what is a very short period is ridiculous and over dramatic.

Also if the OP had followed any of that advice, would have risked inflaming an already rocky employment relationship by giving the employee ammunition to claim she was being harassed/victimised.

Fortunately it seems the OP is more sensible and has waited for the fit note and can now address the wider sickness problem.

Jumping it's perfectly legal to discipline someone for sickness absence as long as it's not pregnancy or disability related, although the ins and outs of doing so morally are obviously debatable.

If someone was that bothered about their income they wouldn't be going off sick at the drop of a hat.

So someone who is taking the piss gets away with it because you think it "is ridiculous and over dramatic." . I am sure you'd feel differently if it was your business!

I think checking up on someone visa face book our phone calls is awful. If a sick note has been provided then that should be sufficient.

Via not visa

Presumably sick people still need to eat, and therefore should be allowed visits to shops!

" I am sure you'd feel differently if it was your business!"

Not at all, because luckily for me and my clients, I have a decent knowledge of employment law, and therefore save them a fortune in tribunal compensation by not advising them that such behaviour would be absolutely fine and considered perfectly reasonable when someone has a doctors note for a couple of weeks.

Rather than all the ing, what would you suggest when someone has a doctors certificate saying they were not well enough to work for a short period and you thought they might have been away at the time? Disregard the medical opinion?

If the OP did as some have advised here, and snooped by phoning, or making surprise visits or whatever, two things may follow.

Firstly she may or may not prove that the employee was not in the house at the time of the phone calls or visit/s. Big deal! How is that helpful at all? A medical note does not require the person to sit in the house at all times.

Secondly, the OP would be likely to find a grievance on her desk if the employee discovered all this, and did not appreciate surprise visits, phone calls to people trying to find out where she was etc. This would make disciplining her/dismissing her at a later date much more challenging as the employer could easily be made to look unreasonable. Key to dismissing someone fairly is to make sure actions are reasonable, not giving the employee anything they can use to suggest you are not reasonable.

The only snooping activities that may prove anything helpful at all would be actual evidence that the person was on the beach in the Canaries at the time, or whatevever. But obviously that would be a gross invasion of privacy as well as still not actually proving the person was in fact fit for work!

So yes, talk of snooping and surprise visits/phone calls for a short, doctor-certified absence are ridiculous and over dramatic. I think sometimes people get carried away at the prospect of a dramatic thread rather than actually thinking things through sensibly.

Wait for the sick note. There's no point doing anything in the meantime. How you cover her absence is the same regardless of why she is off, and speculation is pointless.

I think she has connex the doctor into getting a note so that she could go on holiday, however there is nothing you can do about it (which she knows).

I think you need to address the sickness picture overall, ask if there is a problem that you can support her with. Make it clear how much sickness is tolerated and set goals to improve it. Get an abscence policy in place and of she continues to take the piss you have got ways to dissmiss her.

There had been a case recently where a women took get employers to court, and won, because they snooped when she was off sick. Was on the news last week.

Woman

The law is very clear on what an employer can and cannot do in relation to contact with an employee who is sick. Repeated phone calls is one of the cannots. Investigation without formal notification to the person you are investigating - a cannot.

And there is NO requirement for a person who is certified unfit to work to stay at home. They can go where they please, including to a lovely sunny holiday place, they can get a tan. They are unfit to WORK, and as such the only thing they are not allowed to do is go to work. Everything else, including holidays, is fine - and often recommended as part of recovery.

OP if I were you I'd get your employer to pay for some formal HR training for you ASAP. Employment law is an absolute minefield, and if you don't know what you are doing, or possess a good working knowledge of the law it is very easy to get yourself /your employer in a lot of very expensive hot water. Ignorance of the law is no defence.

Be careful not to jump to conclusions. I had a team member who went off sick suddenly. She emailed to let me know she was signed off for 2 weeks. Then another 2 weeks. Then another 2. It was extremely difficult to cover for her and she hadn't sent in any sick notes. I tried phoning without success, and emailing. HR wrote to invite her to a formal review. She didn't receive the letter. We got a new CEO who reviewed all outstanding sick leave and declared"She won't be back." He suggested someone 'pop round' to see her. HR advised against it as it she could claim harassment.

However, she had moved house and the letter was mis-delivered; at the same time, they had a BT phone fault for a week. Just what she needed when she was ill. Her husband was supposed to have posted the sick notes but she found them in his van (she brought them all in). We're a big organisation in the public sector and were able to support her back to work through a phased return. CEO wasn't impressed originally but eventually admitted she is a real asset to the office.

Only you know if yours is worth the effort or not. Mine was, but not everyone is so lucky.