Off sick but suspect employee gone on holiday

[fedupandtired]

Employee requested some annual leave but it wasn't authorised due to too many other people already off. Employee then phones in sick, says she's got a doctors note but a weeks passed and we've yet to receive it. On phoning employee her phone goes straight to voicemail each time.

This particular employee has been disciplined several times in the past over her sick record and since December not a month has gone by without her having some time off sick.

I strongly suspect she's gone ahead and gone on holiday but is there anything we can do? The type of work means that others have to cover and if they can't we have to get in agency which of course costs a fortune.

[thistlelicker]

It's a shame people can't be off sick without people doubting !!! Too many busybodies!!!!

[flowery]

OP I don't think anyone has perceived anything you've done as harassment have they?

Some of the advice on this thread would have laid you open to claims of harassment had you followed it, but you haven't.

[renaldo]

the nhs sicness policy where i work requires me to phone the people i manage when they are sick to see how they are. triggers for absence managemnt policy are requesting leave then phoning in sick, not being available by phone or returning messages when sick, and 4 episodes og sick leave in 12 minths leads to formal monitoring and capability hearings and ultimately dismissal if no improvement.

[fedupandtired]

Wow! Some people are getting a bit het up about some perceived harrassment.

FWIW - I actually don't think it's harrassment to phone someone asking for their sick note after they promised to drop it off but failed to. Until we had the sick note her absence was considered unauthorised. As I've already said we now have the sick note so this is no longer an issue.

Just to reiterate though - this particular employees sick record is appalling (and will be addressed). If it hadn't been I doubt anyone would have batted an eyelid.

[Snowgirl1]

Oops, sorry posted before I realised that there were four pages of responses and things had moved on,

[Snowgirl1]

If your employee can't provide a medical certificate when she returns, then you should organise a disciplinary meeting. You should advise her that the meeting is being called because she requested holiday and then was off sick for the same dates requested and she can't provide a medical certificate and you therefore believe she was not actually sick but on holiday. Give her the chance to put her side of things (i.e. provide the medical certificate). Assuming she can't provide a medical certificate, you can discipline her/dismiss her. You don't have to prove she was on holiday, you just have to act reasonably. I think a reasonable employer would reach the same conclusion as you if she can't provide a medical certificate.

[CoolaSchmoola]

TSC - what your boss did was illegal and constituted harassment. Because you were pregnant it would have potentially have be deemed as harassment based on gender (solely because men can't be off sick whilst pregnant) on top of the protection the law offers pregnant women.

[ElephantsEye]

Be careful not to jump to conclusions. I had a team member who went off sick suddenly. She emailed to let me know she was signed off for 2 weeks. Then another 2 weeks. Then another 2. It was extremely difficult to cover for her and she hadn't sent in any sick notes. I tried phoning without success, and emailing. HR wrote to invite her to a formal review. She didn't receive the letter. We got a new CEO who reviewed all outstanding sick leave and declared"She won't be back." He suggested someone 'pop round' to see her. HR advised against it as it she could claim harassment.

However, she had moved house and the letter was mis-delivered; at the same time, they had a BT phone fault for a week. Just what she needed when she was ill. Her husband was supposed to have posted the sick notes but she found them in his van (she brought them all in). We're a big organisation in the public sector and were able to support her back to work through a phased return. CEO wasn't impressed originally but eventually admitted she is a real asset to the office.

Only you know if yours is worth the effort or not. Mine was, but not everyone is so lucky.

[CoolaSchmoola]

The law is very clear on what an employer can and cannot do in relation to contact with an employee who is sick. Repeated phone calls is one of the cannots. Investigation without formal notification to the person you are investigating - a cannot.

And there is NO requirement for a person who is certified unfit to work to stay at home. They can go where they please, including to a lovely sunny holiday place, they can get a tan. They are unfit to WORK, and as such the only thing they are not allowed to do is go to work. Everything else, including holidays, is fine - and often recommended as part of recovery.

OP if I were you I'd get your employer to pay for some formal HR training for you ASAP. Employment law is an absolute minefield, and if you don't know what you are doing, or possess a good working knowledge of the law it is very easy to get yourself /your employer in a lot of very expensive hot water. Ignorance of the law is no defence.

[valiumredhead]

Woman

[valiumredhead]

There had been a case recently where a women took get employers to court, and won, because they snooped when she was off sick. Was on the news last week.

[NachoAddict]

I think she has connex the doctor into getting a note so that she could go on holiday, however there is nothing you can do about it (which she knows).

I think you need to address the sickness picture overall, ask if there is a problem that you can support her with. Make it clear how much sickness is tolerated and set goals to improve it. Get an abscence policy in place and of she continues to take the piss you have got ways to dissmiss her.

[Xmasbaby11]

Wait for the sick note. There's no point doing anything in the meantime. How you cover her absence is the same regardless of why she is off, and speculation is pointless.

[flowery]

If the OP did as some have advised here, and snooped by phoning, or making surprise visits or whatever, two things may follow.

Firstly she may or may not prove that the employee was not in the house at the time of the phone calls or visit/s. Big deal! How is that helpful at all? A medical note does not require the person to sit in the house at all times.

Secondly, the OP would be likely to find a grievance on her desk if the employee discovered all this, and did not appreciate surprise visits, phone calls to people trying to find out where she was etc. This would make disciplining her/dismissing her at a later date much more challenging as the employer could easily be made to look unreasonable. Key to dismissing someone fairly is to make sure actions are reasonable, not giving the employee anything they can use to suggest you are not reasonable.

The only snooping activities that may prove anything helpful at all would be actual evidence that the person was on the beach in the Canaries at the time, or whatevever. But obviously that would be a gross invasion of privacy as well as still not actually proving the person was in fact fit for work!

So yes, talk of snooping and surprise visits/phone calls for a short, doctor-certified absence are ridiculous and over dramatic. I think sometimes people get carried away at the prospect of a dramatic thread rather than actually thinking things through sensibly.

[flowery]

" I am sure you'd feel differently if it was your business!"

Not at all, because luckily for me and my clients, I have a decent knowledge of employment law, and therefore save them a fortune in tribunal compensation by not advising them that such behaviour would be absolutely fine and considered perfectly reasonable when someone has a doctors note for a couple of weeks.

Rather than all the ing, what would you suggest when someone has a doctors certificate saying they were not well enough to work for a short period and you thought they might have been away at the time? Disregard the medical opinion?

[sameoldIggi]

Presumably sick people still need to eat, and therefore should be allowed visits to shops!

[valiumredhead]

Via not visa

[valiumredhead]

I think checking up on someone visa face book our phone calls is awful. If a sick note has been provided then that should be sufficient.

[MissStrawberry]

So someone who is taking the piss gets away with it because you think it "is ridiculous and over dramatic." . I am sure you'd feel differently if it was your business!

[Trifle]

If someone was that bothered about their income they wouldn't be going off sick at the drop of a hat.

[flowery]

Jumping it's perfectly legal to discipline someone for sickness absence as long as it's not pregnancy or disability related, although the ins and outs of doing so morally are obviously debatable.

[flowery]

Yes all this snooping/ checking up/trying to trap out someone who is signed off for what is a very short period is ridiculous and over dramatic.

Also if the OP had followed any of that advice, would have risked inflaming an already rocky employment relationship by giving the employee ammunition to claim she was being harassed/victimised.

Fortunately it seems the OP is more sensible and has waited for the fit note and can now address the wider sickness problem.

[JumpingJetFlash]

If the doctor has signed her off is there anything you can do? Surely if it warrants the doc signing her off (something that they are loathe to do normally) then what she does in that time off is none of the companies business and also not something that she can be disciplined for?

(Admit I know nothing about these situations but couldn't this penalise genuinely ill people)