Government's "new" great childcare plan....

[duende]

I know there was a thread about it here a few weeks ago, but now a bit more detail is available:

parents to get 20% of childcare cost back

Now, I can't help but see it as a bit of a con. First of all, annoyed by how they sell it - our childcare bill is closer to 10-12k, so £1200 per year is NOT 20%.
Also, at the moment, both me and DP get the full amount available in childcare vouchers, which they will abolish. I get £243 per month, DP gets £220, and I am a higher tax payer.
Surely we will not be better off with this great new deal they have come up with?

Also, this will only be available to families where both parents work, current childcare voucher scheme is not restricted this way.

Am I missing something here, or are they about to screw people over again whilst dressing it as a positive move??

@Kopparbergkate
and what about students? I guess it's also a luxury to want to go back to uni full-time to re- train in an area where there's a skill shortage in this country.

It has been announced that there should be an exception for non-working parents receiving Disability Living Allowance and that exceptions for other groups will be considered during consultation. Make of that what you will.

@jasperc163
Anyone seen anything official saying that the voucher system will remain?

Yes it has been confirmed that people in the existing scheme can stay in, although individual employers may stop providing them at any time and as you won't be able to join an "old" scheme once the new system comes into place (including if you switch jobs) sooner or later the old schemes will die.

I think I am being a bit dim here - but I actually think I might be able to claim something (shock horror!) having never done it before...can anyone advise?
I have a house (my mum's old house) that I own but rent out. I pay my tax as a self employed landlord but have previously been told that because I own the house I cannot claim any benefits.
Can I now? We live on £800 pm, so are hardly rolling in it and 2 half days at nursery cost £600 pm, so this could actually help me a bit.

@ihategeorgeosborne
Does anyone know if Dh could start claiming the vouchers at work in 2014 and save them up for 2015, just so that we can be in the system as it were so that when I find work we are not moved onto the new system and then not eligible as ds would be nearly 5?

Yes, although some schemes have time limits on how long you can save them up so do check that.

Ah, am a single mum btw

payments of up to £1,200 per child, per year.

450,000 currently claim.
From Autumn 2015, 1.3m families, rising to about 2.5m

You?ll still be able to join the childcare vouchers scheme until Tax-Free Childcare is available. After that, it's likely existing members will be allowed to continue to use vouchers, or switch to the new scheme.

I AM ENTITLED TO MOOOOAAAR !

ATouchOfStuffing
I pay my tax as a self employed landlord but have previously been told that because I own the house I cannot claim any benefits.

Income from property is not self employment - you will need to satisfy the minimum requirement for working to get this benefit.

Argh - and it's £300pm for 2 half days, sorry! I don't live in London

Oh, I thought I had filled out my tax form as self employed landlord...
So no. Thanks MrAnchovy Although there is no point in working as my wages would all go on childcare, may actually not cover it even with £1200 pa. Would rather be with my child.

I have ranted about this all day. The whole system needs radical overhaul and I have ranted a bit more here

I was on our local radio station earlier talking about what a nonsense the entire thing is.

A touch of

You used to be able to claim tax credit/WTC if you owned your own home. Your house if you rent it though is a business and if it were a home would be considered an assett. You would be expected to sell the home and have spent the money before you could claim benefit.

Yes, you see I am trying to avoid being on benefits for the rest of my life by selling the only asset I have... ho hum!

There is no minimum earnings of £10,000pa for this new scheme; this is a threshold that applies under Universal Credit. You will not qualify for the new scheme if you get Universal Credit but as the new scheme only pays 20% of childcare costs and UC pays 70% that should not be a problem.

I 'earn' under £8.5k pa - when you deduct all of the works done to the property every year, I then get taxed about £300 on top of that income and pay £200pm in council tax for my own property.
Never see any of the damn stuff come back though.
Mind you, my bins get emptied every other week as long as the lid isn't over 4 inches open, thus becoming a hazard to the bin men (huzzah!).

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, I've only skimmed the thread. But, won't this plan also push more people into loosing child benefit too as the vouchers are salary sacrifice and often take people just under the threshold? I have several friends this could affect in this way.

Also, on the point of SAHP, my DSis was made redundant whilst on maternity leave. There are no jobs in her field in her area. She can't move because of her DH's job and family commitments. DSis puts DNeice into nursery a couple of mornings per week so she can look for a new job and do a little voluntary work (BIG SOCIETY DAVE) in her sector. She can't do this with a baby / toddler in tow. So, not only have the fucking tories taken her job (she worked with adults with learning disabilites and her role was no longer funded due to cuts) they are also taking her voluntary role.

@glenthebattleostrich
But, won't this plan also push more people into loosing child benefit too as the vouchers are salary sacrifice and often take people just under the threshold?

Only if they decide to switch to the new scheme (or their employer decides to stop providing "old style" vouchers).

Ohh i never considered threshold an reckon some could be stung as vouchers tax pretax brings salary down but new scheme doesnt.

You would have to be fairly low income to get universil credit surly?

when they took away our tax credits last year think it was

25k with 1 child, up to32k for 3kids pus so assumed anyone over 32k wont get tax credits.

Also wonder how it will effect home educators as contmeplated home ed last year for eldest and having younger one in nursery to facilitate that they saving state money but get no financial support to home educate yet in the states its tax deductble.

Also its not so easy to move to find work with kids in tow.
I wish we had faily support but theres no jobs in mums hometown, crap schools and high house prices.

I dont really like being a sahm would rather be working just not viable so liz truss saying we have choice is i go out and get part time min wage job makes no diffrence as be earning under 10k.

well least its propsal and hopefully we can make them see error of ways,

Bugger. Does anyone know when it's coming in? And what's happening to money held in the voucher scheme accounts right now? We get vouchers now via DH's work (I can't believe the stats that only 5% of employers offer them ) to pay for after school and holiday care. So obviously that's going to go completely ...

Bramshott not until 2015 after the next election.

Oh phew! Thanks gregs.

I'm interested to know what they are basing '5% of employers' and what percentage of the workforce they employ.

Is the NHS counted as 1 employer, alongside the local shoe shop.

Also many companies just do a salary sacrifice thing which goes directly to childcare provider, or in house nursery.

That 5% doesn't ring true to me.

Hello. We're going to move this thread to our Family Friendly topic now

Can someone clarify if this is how childcare vouchers work?

You get up to £243 of your wages paid as childcare vouchers and you don't pay tax on that £243. So if you are a higher tax payer you save £121.50 that would have otherwise been taken off you as tax? If both parents get vouchers and are on higher tax bracket then that's £243 saved.

On the new scheme the maximum you can get is £115 a week? But that is per child? So if you have 3 children in childcare you'll be better off?

Quick stats which may be correct... 47.5% of UK workforce are in small to medium size companies; 58% of the private sector employees in small to medium enterprises. These are the ones least likely to offer vouchers.

This says that 450,000 families are using them, which means... (back of envelope calculations) I don't think more than 7% of families in work and with under 12s could be using them. So yeah, pretty restricted option & take-up.

DH's boss said that it would be too expensive for him to offer (small company, there are costs involved, I guess). My employer (large university) offered to pay nursery fees before tax Only IF your child attended the onsite nursery: very over-subscribed nursery with long waiting lists, obviously no help with school age children. My old employer probably counts in the official stats, too, as one of the employers who offered vouchers or equivalent. But not helpful to many.

Is the new childcare scheme going to be considered a "public funds" benefit, a la tax credits and child benefit? I ask because as a non-EU immigrant on a temporary visa, I'm not allowed to claim public funds/benefits. My British husband is also not allowed to claim public funds, as far as we are aware, because we need to prove to the Home Office for the duration of my spouse visa that he is capable of supporting me sans state assistance in the event that I lose my job.

This is not an issue just now because the current childcare vouchers are seen as an employer-provided benefit. It's actually not an issue post-2014 either, in my case, because I should have a green card by then, but I wonder how many other families might be affected by this? My CCVs give us less than £50 a month extra, but it helps nonetheless.