Government's "new" great childcare plan....

[duende]

I know there was a thread about it here a few weeks ago, but now a bit more detail is available:

parents to get 20% of childcare cost back

Now, I can't help but see it as a bit of a con. First of all, annoyed by how they sell it - our childcare bill is closer to 10-12k, so £1200 per year is NOT 20%.
Also, at the moment, both me and DP get the full amount available in childcare vouchers, which they will abolish. I get £243 per month, DP gets £220, and I am a higher tax payer.
Surely we will not be better off with this great new deal they have come up with?

Also, this will only be available to families where both parents work, current childcare voucher scheme is not restricted this way.

Am I missing something here, or are they about to screw people over again whilst dressing it as a positive move??

I read today that people already enrolled in the voucher scheme could continue if they wished, but they would not be accepting new starters from 2015. We would be worse off. At the moment, both hubby and I buy the vouchers saving us £1866 per year. We will not stop claiming the vouchers if we dont have to, although with no plans for baby no 2 for a few years we might end up worse off second time around. Annoying to say the least.

This deal is a double sword because 1) the amount of credits will be lower than it is now and b) if it is only offered to families where both parents work it doesn't help the non-working parent get some childcare while they look for wo.k. It's a lot easier to find a job/work part-time or flexibly if you already have childcare. Hmm...

I don't think this point has been made yet but from what I'm reading - since the majority of those who claim childcare vouchers work in the public sector (although not exclusively, I know that), if the voucher scheme ends, those who used the voucher scheme would be worse off. Which smacks a bit of yet another government decision to make working conditions worse for the public sector, and we know how much the Tories looove public sector workers.

Dh works in the public sector and I am currently a SAHM. Our youngest is not 2 yet and I am planning on trying to find work when he gets his 15 free hours in a year or so if the government haven't abolished that by then. Does anyone know if Dh could start claiming the vouchers at work in 2014 and save them up for 2015, just so that we can be in the system as it were so that when I find work we are not moved onto the new system and then not eligible as ds would be nearly 5?

This whole thing is totally illogical, and I have to hope that they will keep the voucher system going alongside (though I have my doubts?)

At the moment DH and I claim the full £243 each month each. By 2014 our youngest will be 5 and so theoretially neither would initially be eligble for the new system!! Our childare costs do not disappear once school starts as we have after school and holidays.

Anyone seen anything official saying that the voucher system will remain? They've already taken our child benefit ffs!

I am generally fairly pro-ConDem ( I know, I know) but just want to say that this is a pointless and rubbish measure that shows implicitly how OUT OF TOUCH WITH REAL PEOPLE these poilticians are.
£1200 a year towards childcare when full-time childcare is £10-12k a year will not make a difference to whether the second parent is able to go out and get a job/keep a job or not. The universallity of it - each parent can earn up to £150k!!!!! - is directing money where it is clearly not needed. MORE money needs to be directed at those earning average salaries and less, or there needs to be far more tax brackets to support people on lower salaries so they can keep more money to support their families and not subsidise those who can well afford & probably do, to keep a full-time live-in nanny.

Am outraged at the notion that this is a carrot for which we are going to be keen to vote them back in???? Is likely to go the other way. I have never voted Labour, but until someone gets an actual grip, that looks more & more likely.
I hope some researcher is picking all this feedback up to take back to the next policy focus meeting.

We do childcare vouchers - private sector. We are normal average salary professional types. It won't affect us as our two will be out of childcare by then.

Its a cut as its less than 2parents currently save.

its got so many conditions that it wont help as many people despite offering 1200 per child.

it hardly make dent in childcare costs.

C4news todat cathy newman intereveiwed liz truss and must ahve asked her same question 5times.

do you believe goverment should encourage all mothers to work.

she waffled and said shes pro choice and new proposals give greater flexibility.

what choice does it give spouse could be male whos married to higher rate tax payer who stays at home they not conquered by universil credit/tax credit and some may have lost their child benefit too.
energy/petrol forever rising.

Im fed up feel under valued.
its quite fiddly to change amounts and provider as the voucher company need specific amounts an setting details.

hubby uses computer share and pays nursery electronically.
now we get grant price reduced but thourght keep it that way so in credit by sept to fund no3 child starting temporarily stop sept-feb and start up again. Now thinking should up it to max amount but as its electronic and eldest primary dont take it not how to save it up.

All reports have said voucher system will remain if you are already in there. It will be closed to new applicants in 2015

Money Saving Expert analysis

Currently DH gets nothing (self employed), and I got my entitlement reduced to £123 when I had to great luck to be made redundant, so when I got a new job I was a new entrant. All I actually save is my 40% tax. So, that's about £50 per month in the current voucher scheme. So the proposed scheme will double the "government" contribution. Although I hate refering to the funding as government money because actually they got it from me.

This is helpful, but it is not enough. I need to keep more of MY money.

And I'd like to see someone back up this ludicrous claim that childcare costs £6000 per year. I believe full time childcare is more like £20,000 per year (more in London).

Raising the personal allowance and scraping tax credits, child benefit and help with childcare would be far better but cant see it happening as too much has been invested in universal credit.

I think its right its open to all earners, we need tax payers to keep the system afloat. Those under £10k will still get help via tax credits if they work the required number of hours.

As for penalising SAHP's, its aimed at benefitting workers so how does it penalise somebody who has chosen not too? The state shouldnt pay people to stay home, its a luxury to choose not to work as you want to be home.

It's a massive cut dressed up as a 'help' to working families.
For starters, it's cut all help for childcare for over 5's, so no help with breakfast clubs, after school or holiday clubs (essential for working parents). Plus if you both work, you can (currently) both claim through the voucher scheme and get tax relief, which if you were both basic rate tax payers is worth £930 each or £1860 for you both. If you have two children (under 5!) then you will be better off, but if you have one child under 5 then you will be worse off....
Not that I would ever vote for the twats anyway, but this really drives me mad....I hate the fact that they are trying to sell this as 'a good thing' I am not an idiot...please don't treat me as such

I haven' thread the whole thread.... (kudos to those that have!). But if it's a first edition of wind in the willows it could be worth about £8k (has sone already pointed this out ). And OP... yabu, and graceless to boot

and what about students? I guess it's also a luxury to want to go back to uni full-time to re- train in an area where there's a skill shortage in this country.

oops wrong thread!

Just a quick question, DH thinks he saw this somewhere!
I only work 2 days (14 hours) and am out of the house from 7.30 - 6, so DS2 is in nursery and DS1 in breakfast and after school club. Also expecting DC3.
DH says we won't be eligible for the new scheme as I work too few hours. Is this right?

This is quite good, not sure if has been posted yet

BBC Q&A

Whilst I accept its not for everyone it saddens me that parents no longer have the choice to stay at home with their children. Myself and dh are around average earners but we couldn't afford a house or bills unless we both work, I would much prefer to have the privilege of looking after my own child rather than paying for a stranger to do it-but the economy dictates I have no choice, the governments lack of support to stay at home parents is hopeless so looks like I'll need to work...

How will they know whether both parents are working or not, under the new scheme, if each parent can apply to the new voucher scheme individually? And if they are going to runs checks, won't that be a hugely administrative and costly process... money that the government could have spent on, well, childcare support?

PS I used to work as a tax analyst, am educated to post-graduate level, but i am really struggling to understand the implications of these proposals. Didn't the Tories say that they wanted to simplify the benefits system shortly after they came into power? Yet they seem to be in the process of creating the most complex, unintelligible and grossly unfair system (ref child benefit changes) imaginable.

What is unfair is that parents on benefits get 15 hours of free care from 2 years old, but a family with a SAHP cannot use the vouchers to pay for their chidlren to have pre school eduation from 2

I am a single parent on benefits and I certainly don't get this. I get 2.5 hours a week free and that's five pounds for a playgroup space. I pay the rest to make up the short full.

Some Flying start areas seem to benefit from this but ad I'm not in a flying start area I don't get this free 15 hours a week. Dd is 3 in may and starts nursery in September. I am in Wales.

I think only some parents on benefit get 15 hours free and I think its because the kids would benefit from being away from a parent and sociable for a while.
I certainly wouldn't think this was unfair tbh. Because I believe in the children coming first irrespective of income.

@SmilingHappyBeaver
How will they know whether both parents are working or not?

You will have to confirm on the (online) application form whether you live with someone or not and what their work status is, just as is the case for all means tested benefits.

... if each parent can apply to the new voucher scheme individually?

Exactly who can apply in the edge cases of separated parents each with PR who each pay for child care for the same child etc. are details yet to be sorted out.

And if they are going to runs checks, won't that be a hugely administrative and costly process... money that the government could have spent on, well, childcare support?

Yes, that's the problem with non-universal benefits. We are moving towards a situation where everyone has to complete a tax return/benefits application. How many of these are going to be checked is anyone's guess.

PS I used to work as a tax analyst, am educated to post-graduate level, but i am really struggling to understand the implications of these proposals. Didn't the Tories say that they wanted to simplify the benefits system shortly after they came into power? Yet they seem to be in the process of creating the most complex, unintelligible and grossly unfair system (ref child benefit changes) imaginable.

Yes. Unfortunately the current administration seems to have discovered that replacing universal benefits with means-tested ones has the dual benefits of achieving a saving in the benefit spend (at least on paper, until secondary effects are taken into account) and pandering to the politics of envy. I find it incredible that amongst all of the comments about this proposal (which is actually a really good deal for virtually every parent of a child under 5 initally, and under 12 "later" but has some worrying aspects which shoud concern everyone - like how much "later" is "later"), some of the first and loudest have been "bloody Tories giving benefits to families on £300k".

@Whyriskit
DH says we won't be eligible for the new scheme as I work too few hours. Is this right?

Nobody knows yet because this is "subject to consultation". There certainly will be some threshold: 16 hours per week is currently used for Tax Credits, but under Universal Credit this disappears because it is felt that a threshold is a bad idea!