Denying your kid's existence??

[Charlene1]

In order to increase your chances of going back to work, what do you put on application forms/cv's/say in interviews etc. to explain being a sahm? Do you cover it up and put "domestic responsibilities" and not actually mention you had kids. Do you mention it at every opportunity and emphasise things like being able to do 18 things at once and manage time/budgets etc.
What do you say if an employer asks if you have kids/plan on any/any more/what childcare arrangements you have/refuses to employ you as you have them etc. (I know, it's illegal to ask, but I was asked loads of times by different companies before I ever dreamed of having kids).
Worried if I want to get a job, I'd have to "deny my kids exist" in order to get one and agree to any hours etc. over and above contracted ones to keep it and suffer the consequences. #when I worked for a certain supermarket years ago, parents were treated like crap. They were "not committed", a "pita" to rota for etc. Wouldn't want someone to see me as that.

Charlene, you sound really frustrated and I'm not surprised. Do you mind saying what the minimum wage/hourly rate you need is? MN is a network - you never know what's out there.

cheers

£14k gross pa or £7.27 ph to be exact!! That breaks even with paying for 2 kids in child care.

Charlene, don't beat yourself up over it. It's the way life is in this country. Lots of people have to work really long hours just to pay the bills. I know, I'm one of them. My kids are in paid care 62 1/2 hours per week. I just wanted to say that you shouldn't feel bad about it. It doesn't make you a bad mother. It just means you have to work hard to pay your bills, and that's nothing to feel guilty about.

Have you looked at using a childminder? Sometimes they are cheaper than nursery. And usually a bit more flexable.

How old are your kids?

Hey, what about registering to become a childminder? You could keep your kids with you and end up with more money at the end of the month, even if you just took on one or two kids full time.

with the settling in period at nursery could your dh maybe take some time off work for a week whilst the kids do a couple of sessions to get them used to it?

that's brilliant re pay, thanks! of course, stuffed without knowing where you are - have you been looking on www.jobs.nhs.uk already? Plenty of good stuff there. My own view as a previous interviewer would be that your lack of recent work history IS a problem unfortunately - much more so than kids. So I'd say take any temp work you can get - sorry. There's every chance that you WILL get consistent work if you do all the things you have been doing. Don't allow the agency bods to drag you down - you need to work, you're willing to work and you've organised good childcare - what's not to like?

oh, in answer to your original post, I don't mention ds in interviews etc because it's none of their business. I'm not applying to be their mother!

The voluntary work on the other hand at least provides recent references - stick it on your CV.

Can you put your voluntary work in the employment category of your CV - particularly if there's a job title, eg. Secretary of Playgroup Committee? I used to do this when I was applying for jobs and had a lot of voluntary experience but little paid - you can fudge the boundaries quite effectively if you put on things with titles like Campaigner for X Charity - after all it's not their business whether you were paid or not, you are just using your CV to get a foot in the door and an interview! Good luck - you'll get there in the end!

Uwila, all CM's round here have no vacancies until later this year - not sure if I'll get one then. Until then, kids are going to ft nursery for hols. (.They are preschool age) Can't be a CM myself for various reasons, main one being house not suitable, it's rented and we're not allowed to work from home.

Compo - Dp can't take time off - bad time at work at moment.

Acne, yep, have got the voluntary stuff on - it's ignored as it's "not relevant" or "office based". I've looked on all the public sector job sites, local papers, shop windows, asked people I know etc. Temping isn't an option and they won't consider me for it anyway, even the long term stuff, as I cannot start the next day.
I'm in Cheshire by the way.

Just rang an agency I first contacted on 19th May. I had sent 2 emails and rung 4 times to speak to someone. They just give me crap - we've not had it, not read it, your last job wasn't what we have vacancies for (when I told them I'd do ANYTHING and WASN'T restricting myself to one type of job), we'll ring you back etc.
Finally got through to person - she claims to know nothing about it. Rang again to see if she's received it. Receptionist claims she's not been in all morning. Funny that, as she was the one who put me through to her, and she said her name when she answered! They really take the biscuit, to put it politely.

Nothing else to suggest. Would a care home take you for evening/weekend work, so that you can build up enough money to start the kids in nursery and then present yourself to the agencies with childcare all fixed and ready to go?

But you've probably already tried this. Really sorry - much sympathy with such a frustrating situation.

could you do ironing working from home (sure you could get away with this with landlord ie don't mention)? also dog-waling/sitting/babysitting..
book-keeping?

Charlene,
After being made redundant - just before going back to work after DS2 ... - I didn't even try to find another job as an employee. All the issues that you are talking about came to my mind. I knew I wouldn't be able to find a part time job in my speciality, would have to travel, all that I did not want to do either 2 children under 3.
So I search the internet looking for a business opportunity where I could work from home (Try to reduce any paiement up front as much as possible) and still earn enough to cover the childcare until DS1 goes to school (My old job would have done just that - covering chilcare cost).
I am now working from home,enjoying it and hopefully will have a proper full income in a few motnhs. I didn't find anyother way out of it for exactely the same reason than you. I think that depending the sector you are workig they will be more family friendly BUT is generally not the case.
REMEMBER, someboddy has done a study recently to see how badly some groups were discriminated and found with great surpise that women with children was the most discriminated group in the work place, much worse the asian people, disabled persons etc... So the best is perhaps to find other ways than the traditional ways of employement. Try to see if you could work from home doing some secretarial work for example. Or look for something totally different than what you wre doing before. There are some opportunities out there.

This is the very reason that, much to the distaste of other women in my ante-natal group and the horror of our NCT class teacher, I took a very short maternity leave and came back to work part time instead of a long leave and having to go back full-time.

I knew I'd struggle if I was out of the loop for too long and I think SAHP's should be realistic about their prospects if they take time out.

Women with children are discriminated against badly, but to be fair, employers have to consider the effect on the workload of all other employees. Some employers are complete gits though

Some employers are wonderful about employing parents but their staff stick with them and job vacancies rarely come up as the staff know when they are on to a good thing !

I would be flexible for a working mum/dad but I couldn't expect other staff to pick up the extra work without there being a pay differential and I do think an employer needs to assess at interview the likely impact of taking on any employee, be they someone for whom English is not their first language or someone with children under 5.

Politically incorrect I know but life in the real world is tough and competitive, agencies can be the pits with lying scummy office managers and remember they work for the employers not the employees. They care little for the people they employ as they can always get more but their clients (employers) matter to them as that's who foots their bill.

If you can, visit the agencies so that they can see how personable/presentable you are and maybe you will stick in their memory next time a vacancy comes up.

Why don't you contact company HR departments directly. I don't trust agencies as far as I can throw them. And that goes for employment as well as nanny agencies (for those who know my views from the nanny threads).

Normsknockers, what do you do (if you don't mind me asking)?

I think I've exhausted my ideas too. Sounds as if you've done everything that you could do in this situation. Have you seen a careers advisor? Chances are they might say the same thing "it looks like your'e doing all the right things so just keep going"

I do think that we have to keep at it and we haven't failed until we give up!

What did you do before may I ask? Could you do that again?

Mummy, yes one of the agencies had a vacancy with my old employer, and promised she would do her best to get me an interview and she would let me know yesterday. I rang and she was out. Man I spoke to promised she'd call me. Hoped she'd call today - nothing. Have applied for 5 more jobs today, and have 2 app. forms to fill in and send off. 3 jobs were with new agencies, who promised to ring me back "as soon as they'd read my CV". Guess what - they didn't. I even changed it for some of them in case the layout was "wrong". It still didn't work.
DP has told me I'm not doing enough to get a job and is still p'd off bcause of the one at his work. He refuses to accept that I had valid reasons for it not being viable. I know that he thinks I've made him look "stupid" in front of his boss. This is why it's so important that I have to get a job by myself, cos if I don't he will throw it in my face continually as we have no money to pay the bills and it will be "all my fault" for "turning it down". He has admitted they only wanted someone to "try out" and there were no guarantees I would even have got it or been taken on permanent, but he's got it into his head now that I am wrong and I've got no chance ever of working now.

Perhaps you could hound this lady that said would ring you back! I had that the other day and both of them were out, didn't contact me the next day so I'm going to bug them!

I think the agencies are your problem. You are trying, and you have not been discouraged when many others would have given up. Keep your chin up and on going. Can you bypass the agencies. Find out who might be hiring, research them, and go direct to them? Do you have any networking connections?

Someone mentioned the NHS a while ago. I think this is a good idea because they often provide subsidised childcare.

Have you looked on monster.co.uk? What about fish 4 jobs?

Yep, tried the direct approach, have looked on the websites mentioned and have email alerts set up for anything advertised. There is nothing advertised that I can apply for.

I'm so glad you all think I should NOT give up. I've just realised I can't even work in a shop because I'd have to work weekends and late nights!! ARRGGGH!

Well, had a call from an agency at 2pm today, saying we've got a job, can you come NOW for an interview. They are 5 miles away and I have no way to get there. Would have to get 2 buses and would take about 1 1/2 hrs. (10 mins by car).
I said no, so they whinged.
Then they said the people could see me at the company, but they don't know what time tomorrow and won't know until morning as they've now gone home. I said I would have to arrange childcare, they whinged. Had to ask mil who was not too happy as she needed to go shopping and I can't give her a definite time to look after the kids. DP can't have ANY time off at all.
Then they said they want me to start on MONDAY, as I am not working at the moment. Helloo, need childcare... (Day Nursery need at least a weeks notice - maybe can do a "settling session" towards the end of next week, but not before). So they whinged again.
Then I find out the job is only for 3 months. Would get a permanent job with them elsewhere IF there was any vacancies at the time, but there was definitely no guarantees. Also they can't guarantee I will get this job, even though it's temporary and they haven't got anyone else. In a way it would be OK, as it's right near home, maybe with an hr's lunch, so I can take ds to school in afternoon, and if I don't like it, I can still apply for other things, but as a WORKING person. Also could end up getting sacked with a weeks notice, and having to pull kids out of nursery, losing the place and still having to pay a month's fees.

The agency also have a job with my old employer that is fab money, same no. of hours. That is temp as well, possibility of permanent, also to start asap, but is a long way from my house/school/nursery etc. if I have to get back quick. Also wouldn't be able to do the lunch time pickups, don't know if DP can either for definite.

Can't find a CM with vacancies until the end of term, OK from September, but what the hell do I do for the rest of the term? I can't come out of work at 3 to take him to day nursery, then go back, dp doesn't know if he can do it either.
Have applied for loads of jobs and am now thinking "what if they ALL suddenly offer me interviews etc." Won't be able to go as the hours on this job are long.

Do I hope I DON'T get the temp job, and that I get the temp-perm one?
Do I hope I don't get either of them and wait and see if I'm offered a permanent job anywhere with plenty of notice of a start date?
Do I tell them I need to work shorter hours until school hols as I can't get a childminder and risk them telling me to eff off forever?

Very tricky,
agencies can't understand that you can't just drop everything at the last minute. I've been registered with a supply agency who did have work for me but I'd already told them that I needed at least 24 hours notice for my CM. Guess what, they haven't contacted me ever since and I know that there has been work available from them as they are also advertised in the jobcentre plus website. It's a shame that you haven't got a CM vacany atm cos they're a lot more
flexible.

Ask self, how much do you want this job? Is there absolutely no one who could offer to look after lo for a week so that you could inform nursery?

Did you specify to the temp agency that you only wanted part time? Or is it full time you want? I've said this to several agencies and only one of them is keeping in contact with me atm.

Mummy, did you tell them you couldn't get to interviews within 10 mins of them phoning either?

I would like the job, as it is near home, and am coming round to thinking it's a 3 mth contract, so they SHOULDN'T be able to get rid of me before that, and I can keep applying for perm jobs whilst I'm there as a back up. I HAD told the agency I wanted ft perm. Told them there was no problem with the hours etc to give them less to turn me down for. Only specific thing was that I had to have notice of interviews and start dates. They'll probably have told the employer that I've got "problems with childcare" or something stupid.

No, no one can look after kids for a week, apart from nursery and they can't do anything until end of next week.
Feels like I'm messing the nursery about saying yes I want the places, but I don't know when and what hours. They've been really nice about it, and I don't want to rock the boat, as they are being very good on taking ds in hols and pt at short notice.
Also thinking if this employer and agency is going to try and push me into starting straight away when they KNOW I can't just "dump the kids", then maybe I shouldn't work for someone like that??

DP thinks I have to do whatever they say to get a job, but I'm backed into a corner. He's saying I'm putting barriers up, I'm saying, no, they're creating barriers by bullying me. If I can't start when they want me to, they won't offer me anything else. Then I'll be back to posting "no one will give me a job"....

Charlene, it's shite isn't it? I do sympathise. Fwiw, and I know this is no help to you at all, I wouldn't DREAM of asking anyone at interview, man or woman, about whether they had children, what their arrangements were etc. If I have specified hours and the candidate has got to interview I expect that they can do those hours unless they let me know otherwise.

I know this is difficult but I think in your position I'd try to get childcare sorted out before a job to a certain extent. I think if you're going for temp work the requirement v often is immediate and agencies are very deadline based about getting candidates into a company, they're often competing with each other and the person who fills it first wins. It is grossly unreasonable to expect someone to interview with 10 mins notice but I can't blame them for trying.

Sory if I missed where you said it but have you looked for a childminder with a vacancy who you could use at shortish notice? Could MIL be on standby for covering for interviews? Is your DH willing to take some time off to look after your child while you look/interview/prepare? Because he should, this isn't just YOUR Child, it's his too and he shouldn't expect you to just do all this without some help. Who looks after your child while HE'S at work? YOU! So he needs to stop fucking moaning and bloody well make an effort wrt childcare, which is NOT JUST YOUR RESPONSIBILITY!

So along these lines and not wanting to start a fight in your house ! is there a creche at his office? A nursery that HE could drop at? Flexible working that HE could apply for while you are looking? Symathy, I was a SAHM for 4 odd years and the gap on my cv says 'bringing up a family' (bleurgh, it's what the agencies put!) and I've only recently taken my first perm job since ds was born in 1997. I know I need a decent stint on my cv now to make my experience more recent.

I agree with Ladywitch about the fact that you are not the only parent to your kids. If your dp is so keen to get you out working then he is going to have to help out a bit. Can he take time off to take care of the kids while you are at interview? If his work can't spare him perhaps he could make up hours by working late that evening or something? It may not be suitable, as I don't know what work he does, but it is an idea.

Now, this is where I take a deep breath.... It sounds to me like you have kind of talked yourself into a corner - I can't get a job, so I can't get childcare sorted... but I haven't got childcare sorted so I can't get a job. (ducks quickly to avoid oncoming shoe! ) I know - it's hard but you really will have to get childcare sorted first. you mention money is tough, but you need to get your kids used to being taken care of by someone else, yes? is there anyone at all near you who would agree to take them for a few hours a week, or even a day? Another local mum perhaps, even if it means you returning the favour at some point! This way the kids can get used to having other carers, and also give you time to go out to interview.

I used to be a recruitment agent (ducks to avoid several shoes from many directions!) and can assure you that there are some good/nice ones out there! If they offer you an interview at an inconvenient time, let them know you can't make it, but try and suggest an alternative time. They shouldn't bring up the topic of children, but if it is raised just reassure them that you and your partner have childcare in place - do NOT go into details, it's not their concern, and if you go on about it it can make them unsettled and feel that you could be "flakey".

Have you tried your local jobcentre, or whatever they are called these days? They may have some info about temporary childcare while you are at interviews.

sorry,long post going all over the place. Ultimately, I wish you loads of luck and positive vibes. I am sure there IS a perfect job out there for you - fingers crossed you find it soon!

The agency that wanted me to jump when they said really p'd me off today. Rang them first thing to see what they had decided on location/time of interview. Told me to come in at 2.30 to their office. Luckily, DP could have long lunch to take me there and look after kids as he was working out of office today. so we arranged for him to pick me up at 2pm.
They rang back at 12 and left message saying don't bother coming, vacancy has been filled internally. I rang up and woman had gone on lunch. Spoke to other woman from yesterday at 1.30 and asked if I'd been put forward for the other vacancies. She claimed she didn't know anything about it and no, they hadn't put me in for them.
I then pointed out, I had arranged transport and childcare at very short notice for nothing and had been told, I was having definite interviews for all jobs that day or Monday. She said "don't know what you're talking about, wasn't us that said it (!!), well you can still come and register, but we won't have anything for you". . She then claimed that the vacancy with my old employer was to start asap but not as fast as the temp one, possibly in 2 weeks time. I said, oh me having a weeks notice isn't a problem then. She stuttered and came out with loads of excuses, then said really sarcastically "oh, it looks like we're messing you about doesn't it". I said "yes it does", so you might as well forget it then". She said, well if that's how you feel, I said yes it is, and it's pointless continuing, goodbye basically.
So I had all the stress yesterday for nothing.

I had my dad thinking I was starting on Monday and he was going to take ds to school for me, I had nursery thinking I needed a place next week etc. All for nothing. They have made me look stupid, as I didn't think I'd get the temp job, but they led me to believe I would get ONE of the vacancies, as they have no one else suitable.
They went on and on yesterday about how I was the right person, that's why they wanted me so quick etc. So family and nursery etc thought I definitely had a job SOMEWHERE. I am fuming.

I am not bothering with agencies anymore, Ihave plenty of "irons in the fire" directly with companies. Also this morning I had a "proper interview", which was good. Didn't ask nasty questions, only asked how I came to do voluntary work and if it was as a parent helping out or specific job I'd applied for. Asked why I didn't have full time work, told him I was too busy and didn't want it at that time. That was it!! They were really nice, and I think I managed to sell myself - came out with irrelevant crap and stuttered a lot, but should hear result on Monday.

I'm going to do a nursery trial next week, then at least I'll know how they'll react to being left there and get them used to it. Can't book a place properly until I have a real job with a real start date, but at least if kids are ok there, I can "shorten my notice period", as I won't have to worry so much about leaving them.
Am hoping we can afford at least half a day for them in addition to the trial, as tax credits won't cover any sessions BEFORE I start work.

MIL has now offered to pick ds up and look after him until end of term, so hopefully that will work out! Don't know if it will, but it's only for about 6 weeks, so she knows it's not forever. So hopefully, that's that problem sorted. Got a possible CM for the half days in September, or again ds can go to nursery.
Same CM can pick him up when he goes ft.

LadyWitch - pmsl at "dp should stop fucking moaning". Yep he should. Already had the row over that this morning when the agy were messing me about, as he sad it was my fault for "making excuses yesterday". I told him to eff off.
I have told him I am not doing this on my own, it's not fair. I might as well be a single parent if he keeps that attitude. Told him I don't trust him to get ds to school on time though. Will have to see what happens as regards his part in it.

Amiable, nursery are quite happy to fit the trials around interviews - as long as it's not short notice. That's why I had the problems yesterday and today - I couldn't just take them today and sil was looking after them for my morning interview, so I couldn't ask her to have them in afternoon as well, and I knew mil had plans. Good thing - DD was fine being left with sil. Only asked for me twice, then carried on playing.

At least if I stick with normal companies now they give you notice usually of interviews and you can find out at interview when the start date is.

So, am waiting to see what Monday brings. I have 6 jobs to hear from, 3 new ones to apply for. Shan't expect anything from agencies, anything from them will be a bonus.

At least I have got the childcare sorted now - just need a job and start date so I can "book" nursery!!