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Original poster

Am so angry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

93 replies

jmum6 · 29/03/2006 10:08

Apologies now because I'm going to have a rant and a weep.
I'm due to go back to work in september after taking a year off. I'm a teacher and I took the councils half pay maturnity leave which means that I have to go back to work or I'll have to pay the money back. And we can't afford to pay it back so it gives me no choice at all.

However I had hoped to go back part time. A colleague and a friend of mine whose baby is 6 months older than mine has just gone back to work. She applied for part time but was refused on the grounds that our head doesn't believe in job share and that she had no-one to do a job share with and that he'd have to advirtise. However if i applied and put her down as my job share partner then we might be able to.

So I was fairly happy that this was what would happen.

But yesterday she rang me to say that she's just found out she's pregnant again, and the baby would be due in october - which means she definitly won't be coming back to school in september. She absolutly hated going back full time and said she wouldn't be going back at all even if she wasn't pg. I'm not angry at her at all. She's a good friend of mine and I fully understand how she hasn't been able to cope with a full time teaching job abd bringing up a baby so I've no hard feelings at all about her.

But it does mean I probably will have to go back full time or have no job, no money and owe the council thousands of pounds.

I've done nothing but cry since I found out yesterday and didn't sleep a wink last night. I really really don't want to leave my ds with a stranger just because I have to go back to work.

The irony of it is the deputy head only teaches about 2 days a week and the rest of the time has various supply teachers in to cover her 'very' disruptive class. If I were to be that cover thenthe children would have a much more balanced and structured education, but my head has made his views known and when I've said I think my ds deserves to have his mother for a much as possible he said

'well there's always the holidays'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So I hope ds does all his mile stone bits during the hols, when I'm not planning, assessing, doinging records, writing reports or preparing then.

OP posts:

wobblyknicks · 29/03/2006 10:11

Not an expert, but as I understand it, you can only be refused your request if there are 'sound business reasons' - your head not believing in a job share and his personal views doesn't count. Are you in the union?

Original poster

jmum6 · 29/03/2006 10:11

Sorry for going on a bit. But Ifel I've been backed into a corner. dp just said 'nevermined - you'll just have to go back full time then' ARHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Do other mums feel like this?

OP posts:

moondog · 29/03/2006 10:12

Could you go back for a bit,then resign?
I find the idea of returning to work always more daunting than actually being there.

Original poster

jmum6 · 29/03/2006 10:13

Yes I'm with the nasuwt. He gave my friends 4 of the valid reasons, including disruption to the class, extra expense of paying 2 national insurance contributions and advirtising for a job share partner etc, as well as others.

But similar schools with similar children have got teacher's who jobshare in the area.

OP posts:

wobblyknicks · 29/03/2006 10:14

poor you, doesn't sound like dp understands the situation too well, its hard going from nothing to full time! I didn't go back until dd was 2 but I'd have felt like you if it had been forced on me.

threebob · 29/03/2006 10:14

I think she would have a hard time legally given that she has supply teachers in for her other 3 days. Don't they have to have a good reason?

lucy5 · 29/03/2006 10:15

Do you have to go back to the same school? How long do you have to go back for?

Original poster

jmum6 · 29/03/2006 10:15

Would have to go back for 13 weeks which would take me up until Christmas. But that would mean disruption for the children having a new teacher part way through the year.

But I guess this is really the only solution.

OP posts:

Original poster

jmum6 · 29/03/2006 10:17

Yes have to go back to same school as technically they are my employers rather than the council.

OP posts:

wobblyknicks · 29/03/2006 10:17

But if you did the supply periods surely then they wouldn't need to advertise? Can't see how it would be disruption to class, sounds like they'd be getting less disruption and I can't see how the NI thing would stand up, its not going to be a major chunk out of school budget. Would go to the union about it if I were you.

RedTartanLass · 29/03/2006 10:18

jmum6 I'm in a wee bit of a dispute with my employer, and have just returend to work, but I've been searching the net and I'm pretty sure yor head MUST have a good reason not to allow you to come back full time.

I assume you are in the NUT or something similar, give them a call right now, you would belive how understanding they are.

I will try and find the info I found before on the net.

Please don't let this spoil your maternity leave, like I spoilt mine!!

RedTartanLass · 29/03/2006 10:19

sorry about all the spelling errors, and you a teacher to!!

Original poster

jmum6 · 29/03/2006 10:21

I have a meeting with head after easter hols, and the letter does say I can bring someone with me. So far been reluctant to get union involved as at the end of the day I'll have to work in that school.

But maybe I should. I'll think about and talk to dp when he gets home tonight.

OP posts:

Original poster

jmum6 · 29/03/2006 10:22

RedTArtanLass - Oh god, ignore my spellings too! In too much of a tizz to be checking them!

OP posts:

RedTartanLass · 29/03/2006 10:22

Found this

There is no absolute legal right to work part-time or to job share. Some unions have sought through collective bargaining to negotiate the right for women on maternity leave to return to work part-time, so that it then becomes a contractual right of the worker in her contract of employment.

In most cases where there is no contractual right and employers refuse to allow part-time working it is necessary for the woman to establish indirect sex discrimination under the Sex Discrimination Act or Equal Treatment Directive to compel a reluctant employer to allow part-time working.

Other examples of successful cases establishing the right to part-time working include teachers performing a job share, supermarket managers performing a job share, clerical workers and gas workers. In order to establish the right to work part-time it is often necessary to address three issues:

Normsnockers · 29/03/2006 10:23

It may not be as bad as you think going back to work and using childcare for your ds.

I cried at nursery as I left ds for the first time and the staff were lovely saying they expected it etc. I didn't get any work done for the first afternoon back as all I could do was think about him missing me.

I cried a bit less each day there after and ds settled well. He's much older now and I don't regret it despite the initial tears on my part.

You could go back for long enough to ensure that they can't ask for the maternity pay to be repaid and then re-assess the situation

RedTartanLass · 29/03/2006 10:24

\link{http://www.thompsons.law.co.uk/ltext/l0230007.htm#25\one of many links}

RedTartanLass · 29/03/2006 10:24

\link{http://www.thompsons.law.co.uk/ltext/l0230007.htm#25\one of many links}

oliveoil · 29/03/2006 10:27

A man I worked with eons ago had this problem, his wife went back to work for the amount of time she had to so she wouldn't have to pay any money back.

How old will your son be when you go back? 13 weeks sounds a looong time but I am sure it will fly by if this is the only solution you have.

How silly of the Head to have this attitude, lose a good teacher because of his outdated attitude.

Most councils surely have a job share policy?

RedTartanLass · 29/03/2006 10:27

Another Tribunual

Opposition in principle to job sharing/part-time work

Hicks v North Yorkshire County Council (1985) Central Office of Employment Tribunals. The Council refused to split a teaching post in two. It argued that it may be difficult for the school to find a suitably qualified part-time teacher in the area. The tribunal found that the Council's objection was simply a matter of principle against part-time teachers. They had not had any problems in the past to find suitable part-timers to cover for absent teachers.

philippat · 29/03/2006 10:30

OK, have your cry then think through all the options.

work out exactly how much you'd need to pay back. If you're the same as my local authority it will be half pay for 4.5 months (because you don't get pay for the additional period and SMP covers the first 6 weeks). Would this be possible if you then did some supply teaching?
there's plenty of time to apply for a new part-time job, get your name out for jobs to save them having to apply externally, perhaps through LEA?
put forward your proposal to go part time and cover the deputy head's teaching responsibilities together and officially through the correct form. If you don't get the answer you want, appeal through the LEA so it's not just the one headteacher's opinion. Do not bring in issues like 'my ds needs me', that is nothing to do with your employer.
start finding out about childcare now. Then by September it won't feel like a stranger you're leaving ds with. It's still six months off - you may feel completely differently by then.

Original poster

jmum6 · 29/03/2006 10:31

Thanks for the link RedTartanLass. Think I'm going to call my union.

Thanks everyone.

OP posts:

Original poster

jmum6 · 29/03/2006 10:38

Hi phillipat agree with all your points, however a small problam with point 3 is my friend as yet hasn't told the head she's pregnant, she doesn't want to until her 12 week scan, but my appt is before then.
So right now the head still thinks that my application (which I gave in 2 weeks ago) is mainly about jobsharing with her) because the job share appl has been accepted and the process started I don't think I can change it to include the deputy head. I know when my friend wanted to add me onto her application she wasn't allowed because you can only make one application in a 12 month period.

So at my meeting I don't know what to say as I'm applying for something which I know can't happen now. And as she's told me in confidence so I can't tell the head about her pregnancy!

If I don't tell, what happens if he accepts it and then finds out that she can't do it? Where will that leave me?

And I can't change the meeting as it has to be done within 28 days of receipt of the application.

OP posts:

philippat · 29/03/2006 10:43

hmmm, talk to your union about this, but I think you may have to ask your friend to tell the head in time or you'll be screwed.

RedTartanLass · 29/03/2006 10:58

Yes agree talk to your union, but don't agree to your screwed!

If he agrees to one job share, what the problem of advertsing your friend's post for another teacher to job share with!!

Your head's mad as a fish,please talk to your union to stop you worrying. They will be as helpfull as anything (says RTL who has worked full-time for 20 years and has only been in a Union for 2 weeks!!!)

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