Contact by employer whilst off sick - URGENT - please help if you can

[tangerinecath]

I wonder if anyone out there has some good advice for my friend.

She is 17 wks pg and is having huge problems at work. I won't go into all the details in order to keep this brief but her boss and her boss's boss are being very unreasonable in their treatment of her and are making demands on her that she feels unable to meet.

The stress is making her ill, she isn't eating or sleeping, has constant headaches and is incredibly nervous and jumpy.

She has been signed off sick by her gp and is trying to rest at home. The problem is, she is being contacted at home by her boss's boss by email, phone and on her personal mobile (she does not have a work mobile). She did not give them this contact info, a so called friend passed her number on. The person who is trying to contact her is the person who has caused the problem and my friend really does not want to speak to her. All she wants is a total break from work in order to sort out her sleeping and eating problems.

Is it unreasonable for her to be contacted at home while she's off sick?

She has tried calling her HR department to ask to be left alone but they have said they are acting within the law and that she is overreacting.

Surely there is something she can do to make this stop. I am so worried for her, she is in such a state .

I have offered to call them myself and try and get through to them but she says there's no point.

Any advice would be very much appreciated

TIA

What are their reasons for trying to contact her? If she did'nt give permission for these means of contact, she has every right to ignore, I know I would.

Am not sure on the legalities but I would try citizens advice or check in the yellow pages for a local solicitor that will give free initial advice over the phone.
Meanwhile advise her to turn her mobile off (or cut off any calls she knows are work if she can tell this)
If anyone moans about it she can say she was sleeping/too ill to turn the phone on.
Good luck - disgraceful treatment of anyone who is ill, never mind 17 weeks pg!

And I would keep all emails, and log all calls too.

Also, legally her work have to undertake a job/workplace assessment and temporarily remove from her job description anything that she is unable to do now pregnant. Have they done this?
If she is completely unable to do her job whilst pregnant and they cannot offer her alternative work, they have to suspend her on full pay until her maternity leave starts.

Jackstini is right, she must be given a risk assessment.

It's not unreasonable for the company to want to contact her. For example, how they make things better for her and help her return if they can't talk to her? But they should be sensitve to the nature of the communication with her.

I would advice her to write, explain she finds the ad hoc contact stressful and ask them to stop for a given period of time to allow her to collect her thoughts.

If she feels up to it, she should also detail her grievances, explain what's causing her stress, the problems with the person who's calling her. Maybe she could request someone in HR acts as a mediator so she doesn't have direct contact with this person?

If it's a large company, they may have an Occupational Health dept which could assess her and advise the company on contact and return to work strategies. IME Occ health always come down on the side of the employee so she shouldn't be afraid of going down this route.

hth

ps - the company cannot discuss her details with you due to data protection. They could only do this if she wrote to them giving permission for them to do so and for you to act on her behalf.

Go to HSE website & look for publication indg397

I can't link as its a pdf file-
www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg397

She should have had a risk assessment done & can't be asked to do unreasonable things. They may be trying to contact her to try & help - coud someone ring the complany on her behalf to try & explain the problem if she finds it difficult

Thanks for your prompt responses.

Her boss is trying to call her to arrange hours around her antenatal classes. She has been signed up to do a relaxation class with breathing exercises and pregnancy yoga as she is planning a home birth with minimal intervention.

Initially they said that she could not attend her classes as they weren't medical. She offered to take unpaid time off and this was refused. She offered to work flexible hours around it and this was also refused. She got a letter from her GP recommending that she should be allowed to attend so they came up with a difficult working pattern rather than just allowing her two hours off in order to take the class. They also said there would have to be a weekly review of her hours with a director and HR representative present and that she would have to display proof of her working hours which she doesn't do currently.

She was also told that she could not decide when to take her maternity leave, that it was not up to her, and when she tried to take annual leave to attend her classes it was refused.

She can't understand their attitude and tbh neither can I.

All this has been too much for her. Her lack of sleep and eating and her headaches have made it too much to bear. She had these symptoms anyway but the situation has made it far worse.

She has been told by her GP to take time away from work to consider her situation and decide what to do. She knows that she is going to have to face her work situation but would rather do it with a clear head and when she is feeling physically better.

She feels bullied by these people and while others may not have reacted as strongly as she has, she has got herself so worked up that she is hiding from the world in general in order to avoid speaking to her boss about something she does not feel ready to discuss.

She was planning to go back to work next monday and discuss with her boss how to work her hours out. All she wants is to be left alone until then. She's scared that if she contacts her boss direct she will get screamed at again and will only feel worse.

Jackstini she has had an assessment at work, only after having to ask several times for it. She has to move heavy computer equipment as part of her job and her boss wanted to get her a trolley to do it, but she'd still have to carry it up stairs ! She refused and they have assigned someone to do her carrying for her. This is a great example of the sort of behaviour her boss and boss's boss are displaying.

\link{http://www.hse.gov.uk/mothers/\more H&S info)

Definaitely make a note of all issues / conversations - times & dates

Sorry I've written a bit of an essay haven't I?

Thanks again for the responses.

I think her boss's boss is ringing to sort things out but she's been so nasty to my friend that my friend is genuinely frightened to speak to her in case she gets another barrel of abuse. They will not compromise at all over the issue of her classes and are putting obstacles in her way to stop her going. No one can figure out why. I do think my friend is overreacting (only in that many people would feel able to sort this out) but her state of mind is so fragile atm that the slightest thing is reducing her to a total wreck.

She is on her own at home atm but I'm 2 hours drive away and at work so I can't go to her

oops

\link{http://www.hse.gov.uk/mothers\more info}

maternity rights

I'm not sure about the relaxation classes tbh. We used to give it at work (I used to work in HR) but I think this was a company benefit rather than a legal requirement but i could be wrong. A letter from a GP won't go very far with the company, they are usually bonkers and recommend anything the employee asks for.

I'm not really sure what the issue with her hours is, why does she have to prove her hours? Does she work from home or something?

As for the mat leave, of course it's up to her. If she's signed off sick with a pregnancy related illness 4 weeks before her due date then her mat leave will be automatically triggered but that's months away.

Does she have a union? What industry does she work in?

\link{http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/maternity.htm\anotherusefullink}

to the dti website, lists employment rights for pregnant women.

tangerinecath

i'm not a lawyer or hr professional. however, imho, your friend needs to take 2 steps straightaway.

(1) Stop answering work calls for a period of time, e.g. the next week.

(2) Seek legal advice (e.g. from the CAB) at the earliest opportunity.

There are a mixture of things going on here.

• The co can't tell her when to take her mat leave
• OTOH she isn't entitled to time off for yoga and relaxation
• There appears to be a pattern of bullying behaviour here which is most disturbing to read about and which is affecting your friend's health - I think she needs to arm herself with the correct legal advice to tackle the situation pronto.

just my 2c - good luck to your friend.

Whizzz thanks for the links, some really useful info there.

ProfYaffle (great name btw!) she is an Information & IT project manager in the NHS.

Her issue isn't so much that she's not being allowed to attend the classes for free per se, but she knows of other people within her PCT who have been allowed to go. The problem is that it is at her Line Manager's discretion and her particular line manager has said no outright. She really feels the need to go to these classes and is panicking that she won't get the birth she wants if she doesn't go.

In all honesty I don't think it's so much the issue of her classes that's the problem, it's more the attitude of, and treatment of her, by her boss and her boss's boss that's causing the problem. She does not feel mentally capable of speaking to them but they won't leave her alone.

She's tried doing all contact via HR but they have said that there's nothing they can do.

at least where i live there are yoga and relaxation classes for pg women outside working hours...?

she isn't entitled to time off for this, but otoh, if she has offered to take annual leave to cover her absences then i think they are being rather harsh.

This sounds very familiar. Did she post on here about this herself, before she went off sick?

I would really suggest that she join Unison or Amicus, so that when they get funny about her taking her maternity leave, or returning therefrom, she has some backup. (Because if they're like this now, they're almost certain to get funny about her job on return, I'd say...)

Yes RZ she did.

She is in such a state now though that I really fear for her mental health.

Will advise her to join a union and go to the CAB and see if there's anything they can do to help.

B*llocks, of course hr can do it, we used to do it all the time. I'm really that this is happening in the nhs, I was expecting you to say she worked in a really hard nosed environment like a call centre of something.

Tell her to get to Unison asap. Even if she's not currently a member I'm sure they'll allow her to join so they can help her out.

Do they have an employee counselling line or harassment support workers? They will be able to support her on the bullying issue.

Have to go now as dd is trashing the house but I will check back later. Hope it all works out.

btw - I used to be a harassment support worker when i was at work. Happy for you to cat me if you feel it would help.

Bossykate she has tried to find a class outside working hours but there aren't any in her area. She already attends aqua natal in her own time.

ProfYaffle that's lovely of you, thanks so much.

Continuing to contact her at home while she is signed off sick is harassment. There was a legal case a couple of years ago which established this. Tell her to keep a copy of the emails, phone calls and text messages for evidence.

She should write to the HR department (who should know better ) pointing out that as she is signed off with stress, the bosses continued harassment is contributing to this. Drop in words like 'bullying' harassment' 'duty of care' and threaten them with solictors. She should agree to have contact with HR and HR only in the matter of her return to work. Copy the letter to the head of HR, Director and her MP.

Thanks for all the posts....as Cathy said it is no longer to do with the classes , it goes much deeper than that.

They are also refusing to let me book my remaining annual leave (when there is no business reason to refuse), HR agreed this was unjust but said there was nothing they could do.

I am off work sick, my first priority is to stop having headaches /start sleeping / eating better (I had two pieces of toast yesterday and nothing yet today) when I am upset I can't eat and my baby is the most important thing here not work.

My doctor wanted sign me off for longer but I thought one week was long enough to get my head straight without having a mountain of work to come back too.

I have asked HR and two other high level people at work, to ask this Director to leave me alone to get better and she just gets worse.

1. Director started by ringing my home phone which HR would have had given her, but I was only picking up numbers I recognise (I only know she rang then as someone told me)
2. Emailed me via my personal home account, as a so called work friend passed her the email address.
3. The same so called word friend gave her my personal private mobile number and the Director started to leave messages for me on my mobile not that I am listening to them, just receiving them upsets me enough.
4. At this point I am getting frequent home phone and mobile unknown number calls which I am assuming are from work.
5. Director then started to ask PA’s in the office to send me text messages and phone messages and emails., as she knows that I’m not wanting to speak to her whilst I’m sick. Even though I have begged HR to let me have an break from work, they stated it was legal for my Director to behave in this way.

Well, this type of behaviour may well be legal but hassling a pregnant lady who is signed of sick after she has begged you to stop contacting her is hardly moral.

I have replied to the last PA email with a ‘plea that the Director leaves me alone until I get back to work, if not for my sake, then for my baby’s sake’ and I suggested the PA forwards the email to the Director. But I am still getting phone voice messages I daren’t listen too, which I know doesn’t sound rational but proves I need more sleep and to feel better before I have to talk to her. I have explained in the email the moment I feel better/back at work then we can ‘talk’ about stuff but I don’t feel I can do that logically at the moment

All I want is too have a break from work to get my head straight before I go back to work. I am going to do my basic hours and come home on time, they don’t deserve the unpaid overtime I normally do.

I am ready to give up on the original issue, the pregnancy classes, as they won’t even let me book them as annual leave, they are so determined to be mean. I will have to look at booking a hospital birth rather than my originally planned home birth, which is upsetting but unavoidable. In the long run they will lose out in the overtime I usually work and lack of goodwill which I normally show.

There are other problems I will have in the future all types of leave including parental leave while be up to the same line manager and Director to decide. So if the nursery rings me and asks me to pick my child up, legally I can be refused the time off. Ditto breastfeeding facilities, ditto flexible or part time working. Basically if I ask for any favours which require goodwill they will be refused.

I have had no problems working for these women and they have had no problems with me until I fell pregnant, sadly I don’t think things will ever get any better.

I will be looking for another job as soon as I have my baby, they are not worth it, I just hope they don’t make the next four months as hard for me as the last few weeks have been. I will be making sure that my next boss is more sympathetic toward working mothers.

The Director is one very selfish person, who I guess is more concerned with who is going to do my work if I’m off sick this week than worrying about how I feel.

Doesn’t she realise the more she tries to contact me about work the more upset I get and the longer I’ll be off sick. If she had just left me alone the first three days (as I asked) I would have been back to work for good on Monday. But because she upset me so much in that three days period, hence I am now signed off for a week and if I can not get the time I need to feel better this week, I won’t be able to go back to work even though I want too. So in bothering me to return to work she is making the situation far worse.

sweetie

so sorry to hear what a bad time you're having

please, please go and see CAB - you don't have to take your employer's word for it that what is happening is legal. it sounds extremely suspect to me - but i'm not an expert.

secondly, i want to reassure you that a home birth is perfectly possible without specialist yoga or relaxation classes. i planned a homebirth for dd and meant to go to classes - but in the event had spd so couldn't actually do most of the positions anyway so i gave up after only 2. anyhow, i did manage to have my homebirth without them, please do not think that just because your employers are being a*s about it that you cannot have the birth you want - you can.

good luck with sorting this lot out, it must be so stressful. but do remember babies are tough little b***s and although you are feeling miserable and stressed your baby is probably fine.

hth.