Contact by employer whilst off sick - URGENT - please help if you can

[tangerinecath]

I wonder if anyone out there has some good advice for my friend.

She is 17 wks pg and is having huge problems at work. I won't go into all the details in order to keep this brief but her boss and her boss's boss are being very unreasonable in their treatment of her and are making demands on her that she feels unable to meet.

The stress is making her ill, she isn't eating or sleeping, has constant headaches and is incredibly nervous and jumpy.

She has been signed off sick by her gp and is trying to rest at home. The problem is, she is being contacted at home by her boss's boss by email, phone and on her personal mobile (she does not have a work mobile). She did not give them this contact info, a so called friend passed her number on. The person who is trying to contact her is the person who has caused the problem and my friend really does not want to speak to her. All she wants is a total break from work in order to sort out her sleeping and eating problems.

Is it unreasonable for her to be contacted at home while she's off sick?

She has tried calling her HR department to ask to be left alone but they have said they are acting within the law and that she is overreacting.

Surely there is something she can do to make this stop. I am so worried for her, she is in such a state .

I have offered to call them myself and try and get through to them but she says there's no point.

Any advice would be very much appreciated

TIA

and btw if this continues you can get more time off sick certified by your gp.

Can I just back BK's excellent advice especially about the pregnancy and birth; you need to eat but that's for you - rest assured the baby will be getting everything it needs, it really will.

And I too had a home birth, after doing absolutely no yoga or relaxation whatosever. Spend the money on a pool instead. Seriously.

I'm a lazy cow who had 2 successful home births with no yoga or exercise at all, go for it. Sorry they're being so vile.

BE this sounds dreadful. I'd ask for your HR dept to send you a copy of the grievence procedure (should put the wind up them, even if you don't follow it through). As MI says the baby will be find, it will just take everything from you, but you won't be fine if you don't start eating! Look after yourself.....

I would contact \link{http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=332\ACAS} helpline and get advise on how to deal with this complex issue.

Many of the maternity rights are LEGAL rights not goodwill
\link{http://www.hse.gov.uk/mothers/faqs.htm#5\here} you have a legal right to breastfeeding facilities if you need them. I'm not saying that your employer needs to funish a whole new room but they have to let you have basic facilities - clean, private area etc

Parental leave is also a legal right \link{http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/parental.htm\link}

Let me know if you need any more specific info.

I work in HR and while it is not illegal to call you whilst you are off sick it is certainly not best practice - we for certain would NEVER do it unless it was a very imporatant urgent issue, and then you ask when you phone if the person would mind talking! I work in the NHS too, I can not believe they are allowing this to happen, especially with how hot there are on work/life balance!

BE I'm glad you felt able to post here.

I've been lurking most of the afternoon and didn't notice you here

Hope you are OK

Hi Cath, I only posted my last looonnnngg post and logged off again.

Actually I am in a calm and disbelieving mood, as I find it amazing that a Director can harase you at home when you are off sick and that is classed as legal activity !!!

I have decided that I am confusing two different things...legal rights with moral rights.

I'm morally right about this situation and the classes etc and it would cause no problems to the company if I worked around them but they object edas they can and unfortually the legal rights are all on the side of the management.

Oh well :)

Tell em to F**K Off.

I could be wrong, but I thought there was some comparatively recent EU legislation which impacts upon an employee's right to privacy - and does prohibit an employer from calling too often out of work time. Not sure what this is, though - but I remember it coming up with a friend whose boss kept calling them when they were on holiday in Ireland.

As someone has said, provision of breastfeeding facilities are your legal right.

You can still have your homebirth without the classes - don't let the birth itself become another source of stress (and don't let the bastards win!). I didn't do any ante-natal classes and my local hospital failed miserably to run the birthing class for home birthers / those using the birthing centres. I didn't go to aqua-natal and was too pathetic to even get my yoga DVD out of its box.

I ended up having a Caesarean, but that was due to the baby's position, not a lack of relaxation or flexibility on my part. I laboured for days... but the peanut wasn't shifting. I'm not sure one has to be taught to adopt 'traditional' birthing postures, anyway - I think they come naturally when you're in the situation.

I agree with RZ re the birthing position, especially when you're in a pool, you'll do what comes naturally anyway.

All I remember is being so off my t*ts on gas and air (wonderful stuff) that I forgot everything I had read and just did what felt right. With dh and a student midwife holding my legs up. Nice.

A few comments:-

1. You have a legal right to paid time off for antenatel classes.
2. Your HR dept passing on your phone number to your boss is a breach of the data protection act
3. Your risk assessment was frankly appalling. If you are still expected to (for example) move heavy hardrives and such about (eg from trolley to floor), then this is not a proper assessment.
4. You are being bullied and discriminated against and probably have a case for constructive dismissal and sex discrimination.

Saying all that however, be VERY VERY careful. Things like phone calls at home are clear bullying to you and me but you will look a bit weak in a tribunal if they say "all we wanted to do was sort out the hours for her ante-natel classes" - which is presumably what your boss told HR.

CAB will give you guidance but won't sort out your problem for you. Call Bindmans' solicitors on 0207 833 4433. Their highest rated employment solicitor is Alison Downie, so ask to speak to her or a member of her team. Tell her you are being harassed and bullied because you are pregnant and it is making you sick with stress. If you live out of London ask them to recommend a a local solicitor to your area who specialises in Employment Law.
ALL decent employment law solicitors will give you an hour of advice initially FOR FREE, certainly this would be the case in this kind of situation.
I think they will recommend that you write a letter asking HR to set out in writing what you are and are not entitled to (which you can then check against the websites you've been pointed to). You may (or may not) also be advised to raise a formal complaint against your boss and against the HR department for treating you poorly. Whatever. The solicitor will advise all of this and you can then take it from there, without it costing anything.

Try to keep things in perspective. For bullies like this, this kind of treatment is a game. Look at it like a game of chess, get the expert advice and then start putting them into check. Whatever you do, don't take this personally. It isn't about you at all, it's about their inadequacies and their power-games, and sometimes with HR departments it's simply all about following standard processes, even if those processes seem to be highly personal (they're not). The more emotional you get, the more power you give them, and frankly they're not worth it. Get advice, follow it, and chill.

By the way, my company forked out over a years' salary in the end to compensate me for the way they treated me when pregnant....

BE - reading the further posts on this thread has made me so for you. This is the last thing you need.

There has been some really good advice on here - please let us know how you get on after you have spoken to CAB/solicitor.
I do not think your requests are at all unreasonable - offering to use your annual leave for relaxation should not be a problem - that's what everyone uses it for - just because it is not for a week at a time doesn't make it wrong.
If you have not got things sorted by Monday please make sure you are signed off again - don't go back before you feel ready.

agree with whiffy - so sorry your employers are being so vile - it is definitely bullying, no two ways aboutit. I really hope you can sort this out to your advantage....

I have a new plan, I am going to send the Director an email explaining what I think would work by way of a comprise and why. I fully expect to get a nasty negative email back but I am past caring and at least this way I feel I have got my points across.

To be honest I have spent to many days/evening getting upset about this situation and it has too stop now, for the sake of my child.

I have decided that I won't be doing these classes, even on annual leave..it is simply not worth the upset and stress to try and get them off.

I have made the decision...sod them.

I will go back to work when I feel better be it Tuesday (when I am meant to go back) or the following week if I need the time off.

Ironically I have had more time off sick to date, than I asked for in unpaid leave at the beginning...the company has lost out so much already.

Plus the fact that I'll be working at 50% speed and doing zero overtime for the next 4 months, they'll lose out even more. Why do companies never see it is better to keep staff's morale up and have them working hard, than to be nasty for the hell of it, the company is the one who loses out in the end.

I refuse to play any games with these sad wrinkled old prunes, they think work is the be all and end all of life..well that is so sad and I won't lower myself to their level.

I only have 18 weeks to work there before I go on maternity leave (as I am 19 weeks pregnant at the moment and I'll go off at 37 weeks) and I'll be counting down the weeks.

And as soon as I can I'll be looking for another job either in another department or another company for a 'mother friendly' boss. Or a winning lottery ticket whichever comes first :)

You sound so much stronger, BE - it's a nice feeling to have sorted it out in your own head and decided they're not going to get to you - I know from experience that this does work too.

Good luck with it all - keep us posted as to how they react x x x x

BE - good on, hope all goes well...and you are right, it's their lose..

try again - good on you, its their loss...

Thanks ladies, I will post an update when I get a reply to my email/return to work.

But I do feel much calmer having made the decision myself.

Now if I can start eating more, sleeping more and lose these headaches, I'll be back to normal. Or at least as normal as I ever get :)

I really do sympathise, BE - pre-children/pregnancy my boss made my life a living hell for about six months (was there nearly two years, but her previous "target" took her to a tribunal, then left and I was the next in line). I made the decision to quit (with no job to go to - had to give two months notice, so just joined temp agencies and hoped. Got my current job as my notice period ended - worked out beautifully!).

It definitely feels better to be in charge of it though - take a deep breath, tell yourself these dried-up old bitches won't get to you and then enjoy your life with your baby. They're jealous - and with good reason because what you have is so much better!

Well, I talked to an employment law lawyer this morning and I do have a couple of paths, I could follow if I wanted to.

Not that I want the additional stress or have the money to do either path but it is nice to know that I am in the right.

She said the doctors letter I got was good enough to get the classes but I would have to pursue this legally (don't want to for the above reasons)
and that though there was no law specially banning my Director from contacting me in the ways she was doing, any court would do her for harrasment as it was my personal details work were not given and I was signed of sick with a doctor's note at the time.

She gave me loads of free advice on the phone and I'm to contact her if I have any future troubles with my line manager and Director, plus they are not allowed to displine me over the work I have not completed whilst on sick leave and cannot force me to work overtime to 'catch up'

When/If I fill out an flexible working application next year, I am too talk to this lawyer before I sent it.

If I get any further problems at work, I just have to contact this nice lawyer and she said she will sort things out, at a cost no doubt but it is lovely to have the legal backing.

Now I understand why rich people have their own lawyers, it makes you feel protected :)

You still there BE? I'm finishing at 2 today as I have a job interview... I'll ring you on the way home if you're about.

Good for you for going to a solicitor :)

Oh, and just been reading the childminder threads too! Shame we're so far away, you could have dd (at mates rates of course )

BE - could someone else listen to the messages for you? You're going in quite hard here and it may be that she is now wanting to make things right with you. Its worth at least checking.