Is this a sackable offence?

[TroubleIsBrewing]

Looking for some information from anyone with a bit of experience. I have limited HR knowledge but not sure about this one, anyway, here is the story!

Shop opens at 6am, staff arrive at 5.30am. One member of staff turns up, supervisor with keys does not. Staff member doesn't have a phone so has to wait for a delivery to turn up (7.30am) to phone supervisor who has slept in. Shop opens at 8am. Supervisor decides to alter clocking in times so that they both get paid. Neither mention the incident to anyone. Fast forward a week and both are suspended.

Are they likely to both get sacked? Thanks in advance.

I would of thought the other staff member would be more likely to get a warning. Im not in hr though and it depends on company policy.

Supervisor has not altered clocking in time for the staff member - they were there and accepted a delivery. Staff member shouldn't even be warned in my opinion. If it was me I wouldn't accept a verbal warning.

Don't know legal stuff but surely the buck stops with the supervisor who did not turn up for work and who then altered the clock!!! What did the junior member of staff do wrong beside not say anything about a colleague more senior to him/her?! At least they turned up for work (that's if they did- are there any witnesses to that before the delivery person)

It's a strange situation.

What did the non supervisor do for those 2 hours???? The mind boggles..... It's just wierd!

Altering the clock is an act of gross misconduct, the non-supervisor is just as bad in the case that they knew but didn't say anything. I doubt the non-supervisor would be in much trouble (I would hold a counciling meeting with them) The supervisor would be up against gross misconduct for fraud.

Forgot to add it would also depend in mitigating circumstances.

the 'non-supervisor' may well not know that the supervisor changed their own clock

they were probably concerned about their clock, the supervisor reassured them that they would get paid and they thought no more about it -why should they?

Non Supervisor stood outside at waited for the two hours. Lives a long drive away so didn't want to leave to get phone and then the supervisor turn up. CCTV to back this up.

Non supervisor asked if he would be paid and supervisor said they would. They didn't know clock had been tampered with, just that he would get paid. He also did clock in at 8am, so presumed the extra 2 hours were put through as overtime.

Oh yeah! The staff member was actually there on time so it wouldn't be fare if they got in trouble at all!

Sounds like staff member has nothing to worry about.

Mitigating circumstances, would be that the supervisor had worked 70 hrs previous week and until 11pm the night before. Hence knackered and sleeping in. Policy is 10 hours between shifts. Also new manager started on the Monday, someone he previously knew and was terrified of, he didn't want into trouble from her. Good enough? I don't think so, its still fraud? And the other member of staff, by not telling another senior member of staff is just as bad?

P.s thanks all for input!

I would say the supervisor would likely be sacked. It's theft in a way, altering clocking in times to get paid for when they weren't there.

Non-supervisor may get a telling off for not telling senior management but if CCTV proves him waiting then it shows he did nothing wrong.

Mitigating circumstances for sleeping in but not for the dishonesty. With CCTV too, what were they thinking?

if supervisor worked until 11pm the night before he shouldn't have been returning to work at that time, however that is a grievance which would run seperately from a disciplinary, however any allegations of bullying may be taken into account

it is not the colleagues responisibility to tell the supervisors boss that the supervisor was late, no blame for the situation should lay at their door

Did non-supervisor do wrong by not trying to contact anyone sooner? He didn't have his phone so no numbers of any staff. He could however have used a public phone? Or asked a member of the public for use of their phone? He had to phone home to get someone to get the numbers from his mobile and didn't want to do so early in the morning, it that okay?

it is not the colleague's responsibility to make sure the bosses are there on time stop worrying about either yourself or DP

I'm a retail manager, none of the staff have my number because I don't want phoning on my day off
the most I would expect is that when they had access to a phone they contacted another store who would then contact the regional manager (because I may have been involved in an accident on the way to work etc)

plus if someone walked up to you on the street and asked to use your phone -would you let them, because I wouldn't!

No its not up to the non-supervisor to contact people. From your later posts I would say that the non-supervisor had nothing to worry about

So... staff member should be okay?

Is there anything that the Supervisor could say that would let him off? What could mitigating circumstances be for entering the start time as 5:30am for both of them?

None. They did not start work at 5.30. Supervisor lied. I don't see how this can be disguised any further. They tried already and were found our.

But the staff member was there ready to work, wasn't his fault that he couldn't get into the shop.

If the staff member clocked in when they entered the shop, then I would say that they will be ok.

On what grounds were they suspened on? Also they should still be paid

Paid until hearing unless sacked in which case money is taken back.

Supervisor suspended for fraud, lateness and not telling his manager about incident.

Staff member suspended for collusion to fraud, not seeking help sooner that morning and not telling their supervisor's manager about incident.

If it turned out that supervisor had told staff member that they had changed the times and then asked them not to tell anyone, would that make a difference to 'guilt' of staff member?

Thanks so much for all your help, trying to cover all eventualities.

The non supervisor was present at work and able to work at the time designates. They couldnt actually DO any work due to being locked out of the workplace. They did everything reasonably expected to contact supervisor. They should get paid for the two hours they were avaliable to work but couldnt.

The supervisor should have a warning re: sleeping in resulting in lateness, another warning re: store not being run appropriatley under their supervision (due to not being there) and final (possibly sacking) for gross.misconduct re: altering clocking in machine

The non supervisor behaved appropriatley. Tje supervisor should have clocked them both in at the current time and then spoke to someone more senior about adding on the additional two hours for the non supervisor. The supervisor COULD have and Should have only requested the extra two hours for the non supervisor who was at work at the correct time and certainly not for themselves.

The hours worked thing is averaged and so over the course of a month hours worked must average a set amount and reasonable rest time 'within that month period' must be given. It rarepy with shift work works on a day to day basis.

And of course, if supervisor felt unable to commit to such an early shift after auch a late night and or a long working week they should have raised this at the time the rosra was issued.

Sorry xpost