Suspension from work - part 2

[applecrumbleandcream]

Thanks everyone, just catching up. Not feeling too good today. A bit grim. Not feeling strong at all but emotional and very sad. Been to the doctors again and just broke down completely, he wants to sign me off but I told him that I just want to get all this over with. He has wrote me a statement whilst I was there blubbering for me to send to the Investigator to say that I am not currently well enough to complete this work. I even had the doctor crying and saying he despairs that employers are doing this. I told him I have got no confidence in the unison rep. I spoke to him this morning to ask his advice about filling in this statement when it doesn't list my computer and what should I do, he was very sharp said if I don't do as I am asked then it is going to go to a Hearing and then said he was in a meeting and just cut me off!!!

My dad has said he will get me the best lawyer there is and forget about Unison, just wondering what to do about this. Have to go back to doctors again next Thursday. He is compiling a proper medical statement for me.

I'm sorry if none of this makes sense, but I can't think straight at the moment.

Op you can take advice from a lawyer at any stage to either advise you behind the scenes without anyone else knowing or act for you openly so that all correspondence goes through them.

I have not read all of your posts but haven't seen anything to indicate you should be entitled to be accompanied to any investigation or disciplinary meetings by a lawyer. You are entitled to be accompanied by a colleague or trade union rep.

I know things are still at the investigatory stage but you may wish to have a lawyer on side if it becomes a disciplinary matter and you should take steps now to ensure that you will be able to get that advice quickly if you need it. I know from experience that insurers can take several days to confirm whether or not you would be covered, at what stage cover will start from and then several more days for a lawyer to be instructed. The lawyer may then not be able to see you straight away and you can lose precious tine later. As I said before your union may also be able to arrange for you to speak to a lawyer.

If I were you I would stick to mumsnet for emotional support and seek professional advice in your position (from an experienced lawyer or competent union rep) and stick to advice from one person. I would give an analogy of seeking medical advice for your child - you could perhaps see 5 different paediatricians and they might have 5 different approaches for the best way to treat your child. 4 of these approaches might cure your child but if you take a bit of dr a's advice, a bit of dr b's advice, worry about what dr c told you then try a bit of dr d's treatment, none if the treatments will work. In my opinion you need comprehensive, coherent advice from one experienced person. Sorry if that comes across as bossy, but I am concerned about you getting advice in drubs and drabs. Good luck and keep us posted x

I just want to add my support as they have treated you appallingly and the evidence is just shockingly lacking

I have followed bits of your thread but not all above, so apologies if going over old ground. Do phone a lawyer if you haven't already. Get a free consultation, give a resume of the problem and get some advice. Warning though legal fees can be very high in employment issues and Tribunals cannot award expenses. Have you phoned ACAS. If not, definitely speak to them, they can be very helpful. Also some CABs have really good volunteers who have employment law training and appear at Tribunals with employees. Speak to all of these options if you can - knowledge is power. Definitely try to get another Union Rep.

just offering some more support x

Don't forget there is fantastic professional advice on the Internet from independent HR Advisors!

Just checking in again to offer more support. You have been treated so terribly, I can't believe it. Good luck with the next few days.

Being off sick in its self doesn't prevent you from attending unless of course the reason for the sick note does ie physically unable to attend. In a situation like yours having a resolution may be a benefit. They should work with you to give a date you can attend if you have a sick note.

• not qualified in hr but have undertaken most aspects.

Re the union rep advising he thinks it will go to disp. I know how hard that is too hear however better to be prepared. The other advice you have receive re the grievence procedure is true, you do need to raise one before leaving, but remember this can be done whilst off sick. Even if they say you can come back to work you can still be signed off sick and follow the process.

Keep a record of everything especially things like tge timescale you were given and why ie do he can go on holiday!

One of tge main reasons that companies lose at ETs is because they do not follow their own procedures so make sure you have a copy of all tge policies and keep note where they have deviated.

An employment lawyer wil be very expensive and cost you more than any compensation you will get. Dont go that route.

At this stage all you need is make a short factual written response pointing out:

1. They gave you 11 pages of data and only one day to respond after they suspended you for 3 weeks and that is unfair.

1. The data contains obvious errors and is so deeply flawed as to be unreliable (eg a computer you dont log onto, you dont work on Tuesday, your computer may not be on but does not mean you are notin the building, days when you were on holiday).

1. This has caused you so much stress you have sought medical treatment.

1. You will respond in detail to the allegation over a reasonable timescale.

I personally prefer to send this kind of thing by email rather than letter as you get a receipt and time stamp automatically once it is sent.

Just wanted to let you know that people do beat bosses like this. A few years ago at my place of work our boss tried to screw over one of my colleagues as she had done to other employees before hand. My colleague fought her and the rest of the management and although it took about 6 months she won in the end. Boss had to back down and my colleague was told she could return to work (although she didn't and ended up finding a better job :) )

I know your going through hell and feeling crap but you can beat this and you have the whe of MN behind you x

Re toothbrush thief - legally they have not complied with anything - if consequences are dismissal their investigation has to be more rigourous. At the moment they have little more than rough evidence backing up a 'gossip' style accusation. Their duty is to show that their investigation was reasonable given the resources available to the employer. This they categorically have not done.

I appreciate that your view is the 'employer lite' version of compliance - this is not the same as their legal obligations with reference to case law. That said I hope that in this case Apple's employers continue to operate as you suggest. That will make things a whole lot easier for her.

RE 'conciliatory approach' I agree this is best - but not at this stage. Be clear - this is now adversarial and apple needs to behave in this way - being concilliatory will mean apple conceding points and employer racking them up believe me I've just spent two years in that position.

morebeta if that were true employment lawyers for the complainant wouldn't exist and employees would always get shafted what a ridiculous statement. I won £30k plus, the few letters and negotiation my solicitor did cost me £1.5k, pretty fair deal I'd say!

I agree with pp apple take moral support from here but guidance from acas, a solicitor and unison.

hope you are doing ok op?

lurker here, hoping you're ok op?

Been in this situation twice (NHS Worker with unison union) both complaints made against me were found not guilty, after being out of work for five months on each allegation.
As far as I can say Unison were off no use to me whats so ever, anything I had to do I did myself (really don't know why I pay union fee's anymore) I also am under the threat of closure.
I think we are all in very vulnerable situations now working for the public sector and all I can say is good luck as I understand how you feel .

Hi Apple

How's it going. Thinking of you and sending cyber support

So sorry you're feeling bad Apple, I think it is understandable you feel worse now the meeting has happened, as I imagine you'd been waiting and now the waiting is over.

Lots of people to help you on here.

I would advise getting signed off if the doc thinks it best, it is important to put your health ahead of this process.

Take care and thinking of you x

More beta, you are wrong.

Apple - from the off I believed an employment solicitor would have been useful for you. For your own health, take your father's offer and engage a solicitor you've heard good things about. What area are you in?

I am a wills and trusts solicitor, but have trained with an employment solicitor whilst on my training contract and she would have given these useless fecks short shrift from the off.

I am very sorry for you.

Re "what area are you in?", I don't think OP should indicate which LA it is.

Perhaps in a pm, not on the boards.

just as a comment I found solicitors to be relatively unhelpful. I would wholeheartedly recommend a direct access barrister if you need one for tribunal. I hope it will get kicked out before then. Hope all is well with you OP.

I agree if it gets to that stage a barrister would be best but think that op needs advice from a good tactician to seek to achieve whatever outcome she is looking for

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