Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Suspension from work - part 2

436 replies

applecrumbleandcream · 12/04/2012 17:51

Thanks everyone, just catching up. Not feeling too good today. A bit grim. Not feeling strong at all but emotional and very sad. Been to the doctors again and just broke down completely, he wants to sign me off but I told him that I just want to get all this over with. He has wrote me a statement whilst I was there blubbering for me to send to the Investigator to say that I am not currently well enough to complete this work. I even had the doctor crying and saying he despairs that employers are doing this. I told him I have got no confidence in the unison rep. I spoke to him this morning to ask his advice about filling in this statement when it doesn't list my computer and what should I do, he was very sharp said if I don't do as I am asked then it is going to go to a Hearing and then said he was in a meeting and just cut me off!!!

My dad has said he will get me the best lawyer there is and forget about Unison, just wondering what to do about this. Have to go back to doctors again next Thursday. He is compiling a proper medical statement for me.

I'm sorry if none of this makes sense, but I can't think straight at the moment. Sad

OP posts:
ThatVikRinA22 · 20/05/2012 21:32

hows things apple? am hoping you have some resolution to this by now.

Princesslovelyboo · 21/05/2012 09:18

Hi again Apple, fingers crossded this is over for you and you are relaxing and putting it all behind you.

treadwarily · 21/05/2012 11:08

Checking in daily for an apple update...

applecrumbleandcream · 21/05/2012 13:03

Hi everyone, so so sorry to have not given any update...

I'd love to be able to come here to update that everything is resolved, however, I have been signed off work by my GP for a month. Head all over the place, feel so sad and crying all the time. I have had a letter to attend a Hearing but not well enough or strong enough at the moment to attend. I'm sorry if I start to ramble, I actually feel like a bit of a zombie at the moment.

I have received a large package through the post containing all the documents management have built up on me, these now include usage of the internet including sites including Natwest bank (don't even bank with them), Jackpot Joy bingo!!! (never ever been on this in my life), William Hill!!!, Facebook (never go on this as I know it is frowned upon). Now I will hold my hands up and admit that I do occasionally use the internet, but then so do all the staff. I certainly don't use it as much as they have said, the wads of paper are massive and include loads of technical sites I've never heard of. The information is all built on my colleague's recording my times including when I had a car accident in December (skidded into the back of another car), mum's operation dates (my mum is actually livid about this as these documents will be paraded in front of other people and my mum is upset about her lack of privacy). All her recordings are lies. She even stalked me when she was on leave for a week by asking the cleaners!! what time I went home. I am so so upset. I knew she was wierd but this has just about tipped me over the edge. When I spoke to my unison rep about it he said at the hearing they will just cut through all that and it looks like it will probably be a dismissal as a couple of occasions I cannot confirm I was definitely in work. One of the occasions I was upset in work because of my mum not being well, she even said "go home apple, there is no one in we won't say anything", but I didn't go home. Now I know she was looking for things to hold against me. She has been colluding with the Manager who has never once asked why would x do all this to find out if she had a problem with me, they have all just believed her story and it seems there is nothing I can do about it.

I am not able to have a legal representative at the hearing as I have been told it is not LA policy. I have, however, made an appointment at a solicitors for legal advice. The unison rep said that if I appeal on unfair dismissal and it goes to a tribunal it is up to the union's solicitors whether they will fight it or not, they don't just take the case automatically. So seems like I have been paying 16 years of unison fees for nothing... waste of time!!!

OP posts:
woahwoah · 21/05/2012 13:31

I've been reading your threads from the start but never posted because I didn't know what to say. It's all so dreadful and I'm so sorry you are going through this. I can't do anything but send my sympathy. I really hope that things go well for you at the hearing.

MainlyMaynie · 21/05/2012 13:44

Bloody hell, is your union rep Eeyore? It might be time to speak to your union's regional office.

Have you got anyone who can go through all the information logically with you? It sounds like you could really do with that sort of support.

Am I right in thinking that there are two basic allegations? 1 - that you have claimed to be in work longer than you have been on your flexi record and 2 - that you have used the internet for personal use while clocked in according to your flexi record?

And there are 4 sources of evidence -
1 - your flexi record
2 - your computer log on times
3 - your internet usage records
4 - your colleague's bizarre stalking record?

From your comment that you can't confirm you were in work, do you mean you don't have evidence to prove it or do you think you may have made some errors with the flexi when you were upset?

Honestly, don't give up hope. I still think you have a chance with this.

emdelafield · 21/05/2012 13:50

Hello Apple

I know it doesn't feel like it but things are coming to a head now and will be resolved at some future date( hopefully soon).

I just want to say I am very glad you are taking legal advice. Please make sure you go to a specialist in employment law.

The one I had was fantastic and I think the fact that I engaged him made my employers take me seriously.

You need someone who is an expert and is on your side.
Please feel free to pm me if you want more help.

Good luck .

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 21/05/2012 13:51

So sorry it's all still going on, apple. I know you say you feel awful (understandably) but if it's any consolation, you're coming across on here as measured, logical, clear and calm.

I think the legal route is the only way for you to go at this stage. Your employers bombarding you with huge parcels of bumph without any actual clear statement of what they are accusing you of is wrong as well as unfair. The solicitor will see you right.

And, I'm biased because I've had a couple of bad experiences with them, but I'd say cancel your Unison payments.

Keep looking after yourself and remember, you have nothing to hide or feel bad about. Keep telling the truth and stay calm. Very best of luck ? and come back and update when you can!

mamasin · 21/05/2012 15:49

oh Apple it sounds so overwhelming! Please do think a bit more about legal support and the lovely HR bods on here, flowery et al, are always so considered in their advice...

marmiteonmykeyboard · 21/05/2012 15:51

Hi Apple, thank you for posting. That was brave of you. I am so sorry to hear what is happening now. You will feel like you have been hit by a train. I am glad you have decided to use a lawyer. It may seem impossible but try to disengage from the process. Look after yourself. Keep eating, getting out into the fresh air and take up any offers of help you can. I remember your father kindly said he would assist with the financial aspect. He sounds a lovely man. If the money part worries you, try CAB. Take all the bumph along. Also try to e-mail your UNISON head office. You seem to be getting very odd and unhelpful advice. I am aware you can end up taking too much advice though and you might be better plonking for the solicitor if you have started with him/her. I cannot assist you with the technological side of it but I am here for a shoulder to cry on. I agree with emdelafield - there is now an end in sight in that you have been given a date for a hearing. Who can support you there? Would you be prepared to take another UNISON person in? Or a good friend? I'm rambling a bit now. Thinking of you, M.

OhNoMyFanjo · 21/05/2012 16:59

Apple I'm so sorry.

You do need some help with this, do you have a y friends in hr?

BerylStreep · 21/05/2012 17:12

Apple,
Thanks for updating - a lot of people are thinking of you.

So sorry this is still going on. Your colleague keeping tabs on you is utterly, utterly bizarre, and if your manager had a problem with your time keeping, it should have been raised with you long before now (by him, not your colleague).

I'm glad you are seeing a solicitor, and I also agree with whoever said about seeing the regional Unison rep as the one you have sounds useless. I wouldn't cancel your Unison subscription though.

Is there anyone who can help wade through all the material and identify inconsistencies? For example, are there internet uses when you definitely weren't there (as per your flexi sheet)? Or conversely, are any of the alleged internet uses at times when they are claiming on the one hand that you weren't there, but on the other hand that you were on the internet? IYSWIM.

If you, or anyone you know, is any good on excel, this would be fairly easy to do - set up on a sheet outlining MainlyMaynie's 4 sources of evidence:

1 - your flexi record
2 - your computer log on times
3 - your internet usage records
4 - your colleague's bizarre stalking record

Have columns for each of these sources, then meticulously record on each row the details for each day from each of the sources. If you want I will PM an example to you.

Have you been given an opportunity to address all the issues in the documentation they have sent, or have you not been asked about it?

I wouldn't be too quick to handing the fact that you may have used the internet on occasion to them on a plate. They are playing dirty, and don't make it easy for them. Remember, the burden of proof is on them, not you. If it was me, I would be focusing on discrediting the internet evidence to the point where none of it stands up. For example, raising that you don't bank with Natwest etc. (I wonder who, in your office, does bank with them? Your payroll section should have that information, if someone's salary is paid in to Natwest - perhaps you should ask the investigator to check that. It may also be worth bringing statements from your bank to prove that you bank elsewhere.) I would also be referring to the evidence that the computers they say you use aren't even your computers.

The 'evidence' from the cleaner is hearsay.

What about your other colleague? Has she provided any evidence? Has she been asked by them?

I asked up thread - out of interest, this colleague making the allegations - was she one of the ones who was texting you & sending flowers? If so, that sort of duplicitous behaviour should be highlighted to the investigator.

Have you checked with your household insurance to see if they cover legal fees? (Check before you see the solicitor, because some of them will say that you need to consult with the insurance company from the outset, otherwise they won't cover it).

I would ask for copies of your grievance and bully & harassment policies. Your solicitor would advise, but I think you need to seriously consider submitting a grievance covering the following:
Your manager has never raised an issue of your timekeeping with you before.
It appears that your manager has been asking your colleague to keep tabs on you.
The investigation has been unfair, as you have not had an opportunity to answer the 'evidence' presented to you.
Your colleague asking cleaners to check your time-keeping is harassment.
Your colleague has made unfounded and malicious allegations against you, encouraged, it seems, by your manager.
The investigation is relying on hearsay evidence of the cleaners.
From the 'evidence' presented thus far, it is clear that your log-in details have been compromised (evidenced by use of web-sites you haven't visited, and use of terminals you don't use), yet the LA has failed to take any steps to investigate.

I'm sure there is more, but I can't think at the moment.

I went through an awful time at work last year (and MNers were brilliant in giving me support), but even with that I can't even start to think what you are going through. I'm sure the last thing you have is the energy for a fight, but you simply can't let them away with this. I don't want to come over as a bossy boots, but these are the glaring issues that come to mind.

One final, but extremely important thing. The hearing can continue in your absence if you are off sick. You MUST make sure you, your union rep or your solicitor (solicitor is probably the best bet) agrees with the employer a new date for the hearing. Don't assume that because you are signed off that the hearing will automatically be postponed.

ThePinkPussycat · 21/05/2012 17:42

Do you have copies of the notes from your one-to-ones with your line manager? Mine were monthly. If not, ask for them.

I have a diagnosis of bi-polar, which I declared to my employers when I initially applied for the job. I took a Rethink mh advocate into my meetings - the job I gave her was to take reasonably full notes of what was said, as I knew I couldn't do this myself. As you are signed off sick with stress this route could be open to you. An accompanying mh advocate should be allowed to attend with you under LA policy. I could have had a union rep accompany me (if I had joined the union, which was Unison). I did speak to the Unison person, the words chocolate fireguard spring to mind.

Yy to specialist employment lawyer, preferably a partner at the solicitors, and preferably one who has been in practise for a couple of decades or more. (This is how I found my excellent family law solicitor for my divorce).

All the best, I truly remember how it feels, I would not wish it on my worst enemy. It seems clear that you are not the person who should be summarily dismissed.

Also happy to PM with support if you would like, it wouldn't be of a technical nature though...

tinkcantwaittomove · 21/05/2012 20:52

Thinking of u

tinkcantwaittomove · 21/05/2012 20:55

Oh apple Sad feel so Sad for you
Xx

RandomMess · 21/05/2012 21:01

Their treatment of you absolutely disgusts me Angry your colleague sounds utterly uttly deranged and your manager incompetent.

I have recently resigned my membership of prospect union due to their appalling non-help of very dodgy job matchi ng and redunancy going on at work.

Gumby · 21/05/2012 21:08

What about your other colleagues/ friends at work?
Can they confirm this woman is a stalker loon?
And how can they go by cleaners hearsay?
Beggars belief Sad

Princesslovelyboo · 21/05/2012 21:21

The thing is Gumby one of the first conditions of Apples suspension was that she was not allowed to contact any of her colleagues, now we know why!!!!!

Apple, I hope you clear your name and recover from this and find a job where you are valued!

FriedSprout · 21/05/2012 22:42

Please, please, please go to a specialist employment lawyer. I can still give you details of shit hot female lawyer in midlands. You need some experts on your side, as others have said go higher with union, or ditch them completely and go with lawyer. Don't just believe what work say as regards representation, your job and self belief are at stake, and this does not sound right. Can I sneak in a quick in-mumsnety hug ?

mirry2 · 21/05/2012 22:55

Your colleague sounds deranged and so malicious that do you think she could have logged onto these internet sites using your computer?
How long have they been collecting' evidence'. It all seems so underhand and excessive. If your manager really thought you were misusing the internet, surely she would have pulled you up on it during your appraisals?

ThatVikRinA22 · 21/05/2012 22:57

thanks for the update apple - if i were you now i would be declaring all out war and seeking the advice of the best employment law lawyer your dad can afford and going for the biggest settlement possible - there is no way you can go back but i would be fighting tooth and nail for a huge cash payout for unfair/constructive dismissal.

all they are bothered about is getting you out - dont go quietly and without a fight - i know its hard to keep going when you feel so shit on from a great height - but you must because this is all wrong on so many levels and i think you would have a very good chance were this to go to court, their evidence is so flaky.

give yourself a bit of time and run with the sick note - but in the meantime make sure you are getting legal advice from the best specialist source and go for them.

so sorry apple. the stress you are under must be immense by now. make the bastards pay for it.

mirry2 · 21/05/2012 22:59

Also why don't you have conversation with some of your colleagues now. What have you got to lose? They probably know what's been going on

treadwarily · 22/05/2012 04:11

How utterly awful for you apple. You have been so badly betrayed and let down.

So many questions - if there were doubts, why on earth didn't your manager just clarify things with you?

You have one colleague from hell there, and a useless management to boot.

Surely between us here at MN we can turn this round??

What can we do for you???

Lougle · 22/05/2012 07:07

Apple, don't let them push you around. You are NOT to ill to deal with this. Think of this as a wound with bits of glass in it. Much as it hurts to deal with it, the passion won't go until the glass is out, so you have to just grit your teeth and go for it.

thelittlestkiwi · 23/05/2012 04:53

Hang in there apple.

I hope in a few months time you will have a big payout and a brilliant new job. Living well is the best revenge.

Swipe left for the next trending thread