Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Nanny has been deceitful, but is pregnant and unsackable...

34 replies

tanzie · 24/11/2003 13:42

Our nanny has recently told me she is pregnant, with her due date supposedly tying in with when she went home to see her husband in the summer. However, a friend of hers told me, quite innocently that Nanny's baby is due two months earlier than she claims (she certainly looks more than 20 weeks gone). The dates she has given me are supposed to tie up with her visit home in the summer, but do not (she is a month out). We sponsored her husband to come here in February for a 2 week visit, and now strongly suspect that he never went back (with the fruit of his illegal stay much in evidence!). He miraculously appeared when she returned from leave, as her dependent, but I have since found out that for him to be here under these circs, we would have had to have completed several forms agreeing to support and accommodate him. I tackled her about all this and the discrepancies on Friday. She stuck to her story on her dates, and I have now asked her to bring her husband's passport in, "to see if he has been given the wrong visa". She didn't look very comfortable when I was asking her the questions (I wasn't confrontational). She has now gone sick (first time in 18 months). I also asked her what she was going to do for childcare for her own child when it arrived, and she said she was planning to bring it to work with her. I said no way. She lives in most of the week, but rents a bedsit in the next town where she disappears to a couple of evenings a week and at weekends. I feel that she has deceived me over her husband's stay (if he is found and deported, we would probably be liable for the costs of his deportation), and that I can no longer trust her. If I sack her after her maternity leave (which is the earliest I can do), I will feel guilty as the family depend on her salary, and she would probably have to return to her country of origin. The kids also like her. But on the other hand, she has brought this upon herself! Any advice? She is not a great nanny - I was planning to have a word with her when she returned from holiday in the summer, but she seemed to have turned over a new leaf (now I know why!) so didn't. She is now even lazier than usual, and is getting on my nerves. I've been off work recently and she seems to spend the whole morning (when the kids are at nursery school, and when she is supposed to clean) with her feet up on the sofa reading a magazine and watching Kilroy or hiding in her room. A suggestion that she might do some cleaning, if she had nothing better to do, met with the response "Later". She knows I can't sack her for the next few months and seems to be making the most of it...

OP posts:
jmg · 24/11/2003 13:46

You don't have to accept her taking her child to work with her - this would be a change in circumstances which you do not have to agree to.

Presumably though the BF could look after the baby so this might not get you out of it!

SoupDragon · 24/11/2003 13:48

I'm not necessarily advocating this, but if she's not doing her job then surely she's sackable pregnant or not? Are you really not allowed to sack a pregnant woman if they're not doing what they are employed to do? I'm curious!

Queenie · 24/11/2003 14:22

If her dh is found to be here illegally and presumably told to leave would she still want to stay in the UK with a baby. Can you speak to immigration for advice without drawing attention to the situation or alternatively a solicitor? If you sack her she has to return home doesn't she as the work permit relates to a specific job and employer and is not transferrable.

tanzie · 24/11/2003 14:34

Queenie, yes, her work permit is for her and not transferable. It expires in June. I think the chances of her dh being caught are remote. Have taken legal advice - am not allowed to sack her for anything which might be construed as "pregnancy related", and have been told I would be on very dodgy ground if we did try to get rid of her (eg she could claim that she was not up to doing housework stated in her contract due to her pregnancy). Am in W Europe - not UK - so am "only" obliged to pay 15 weeks MATL (plus salary of replacement nanny, and we are not on fat expat salaries!).

I'm not happy with the idea of her DH looking after the baby as I suspect he would bring it here as soon as we are out the door, leaving 15 minutes before we come home, which is what he does when we're not here (according to 5 yr old daughter!). Basically, I think she is rendering herself unemployable. We're obliged to repatriate her household when her contract expires - we took on her as a single person, not her, DH and baby (not to mention the rest of her kids "back home" which she might decide to bring out!).

OP posts:
charlize · 24/11/2003 17:53

Tanzie, Surely you could sack her for fact she actually brings her dh into the house to spend the day whilst you are at work. Iam totally shocked by that and would not stand for it at all if I were you.
This man hasn't been police checked yet he is spending the day with your children. If I were you I'd get rid ot the decietful madam pronto.
BTW What country do you live in?

tinyfeet · 24/11/2003 17:59

Tanzie, I don't know the legal aspects of any of this, but it sounds clear to me that you should sack her immediately. Sounds like she is not doing her job, and you would be much better off with a new nanny!

tinyfeet · 24/11/2003 17:59

Tanzie, I don't know the legal aspects of any of this, but it sounds clear to me that you should sack her immediately. Sounds like she is not doing her job, and you would be much better off with a new nanny!

Queenie · 24/11/2003 18:02

I think you should sit her down and tell her what you expect of her now she is pregnant and what you expect of her once she has the child. Document these discussions and get her to sign if she agrees to what is contained within. In the event it all goes "awkward" you have some records. It's a far from ideal situation I agree. Certainly you cannot sack for pregancny related reasons but you can review her duties and revise them accordingly. She may not be able to cart sacks of coal but light household duties cannot be a problem for her unless she has medical evidence. All this must be discussed with her and agreed in writing. Once an agreement is made I would use written warnings if she refuses what is reasonable in your opinion. So long as you act reasonably and tell her where she is going wrong and attempt to help her put this right the law would be on your side in the event of any action for unfair dismissal. It's one thing to bring a claim and another to win the claim. However, I am in the Uk and we are not great on employee rights really compared to the rest of the eu.

Twinkie · 24/11/2003 18:04

Message withdrawn

aloha · 24/11/2003 18:28

I'd fire her too. Bringing her husband into the house uninvited is terrible IMO - you don't even know him! And I would personally be worried that she might threaten your daughter to be quiet about it if you insisted it didn't happen again so she couldn't tell you about it. Personally, I'd fire her for gross misconduct, which it is. Pay her a week's wages and get her out. Don't you have a gross misconduct clause in your contract.
I would never normally suggest firing a pregnant woman but you have to be able to trust your nanny 110%

morocco · 25/11/2003 09:42

I can see that there are lots of issues here that are tangled up but it just reads to me like you would have kept her to the end of the contract if she hadn't got pregnant - is that the case or have I misread that? are you sure it isn't mostly the fact you have to pay her maternity leave that is upsetting you? I'm just thinking that if your nanny was posting on here about not being able to do all the housework for a week or so because she was heavily pregnant for example and thinking she might lose her job because of it, I would be quite sympathetic.
anyway, just a thought and I know I'm going against the flow here but I just feel that she does have rights as a pregnant employee the same way the rest of us do and perhaps that's all part of being an employer.

Batters · 25/11/2003 09:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

M2T · 25/11/2003 09:54

Can anyone trust a Nanny 110%??? I know I couldn't! How could you possibly trust someone that you don't know?
The only reason I trust ds's Nursery is coz it's a big Nursery with lots of people working there.

I have to say I agree with Morocco on this one.

Do ANY of you know if your Nanny is bringing someone else into your home? You wouldn't unless you had cameras everywhere.... and lets face it, a lot of this is guesswork.

I find this situation VERY sad. This woman is a long way from her DH and her children, she is pg again and she is STILL having to work to send money home to her family! I would want my DH near me too.

codswallop · 25/11/2003 09:55

thats why I chose nurery too - but often with more than one kid a nannny is cheaper

LIZS · 25/11/2003 10:35

I don't know where you are but surely if they have forged documents in order to get him in as her dependent and have lied to Immigration re: accommodation etc then he should not be your liability. Agree her pregnancy makes circumstances difficult but don't think her bringing strangers into your house without your express permission is acceptable. Perhaps you can define these sort of parameters and note any breeches to enforce the non-pregnancy related criteria for dismissal.

Good luck

tanzie · 25/11/2003 19:57

Yes, I was irritated at her getting pregnant, and having not only to pay twice for childcare, but also for having to look for a replacement for a few months. But this is not the issue. Unless you only employ women who are past childbearing age, this is something that could happen to anyone. The key issue here is that she has lied to me about her DH's immigration
status here - and, it now looks like she is lying about her dates. And of course, if she hadn't got pregnant, we might never have known about DH's status - I have to say, her dates not tying up is what had me looking into how he got his visa to come here.

Re her duties. She is expected to do nothing more than dust, hoover, wash kitchen floor, clean bathrooms. No heavy work at all. I certainly wouldn't expect her to lug sacks of coal or anything! Or even clean windows.

I've met her DH, and he seems normal and quite pleasant. She had always asked me in the past if he could come and stay if she was babysitting in the evening and we were going to be late - this seemed reasonable, and I agreed. But I've never agreed to him being here during the day when we are at work, which is what seems to happen now.

I agree with M2T - it is a sad situation for her to be here on her own with husband and 3 kids back home (which is how it was before). But at the end of the day, we all make choices...some better than others!

A nursery is out of the question for me as I work long hours, and I need someone to pick up the children from nursery/school and look after them till I get home (usually about 6.30 -7.00). Otherwise I'd certainly consider it.

Thanks for all your support and help on this issue, which isn't easy. I'll let you know how I get on. I might pay for her to go and see an obstetrician to see if I can get a straight answer on how far advanced this pregnancy actually is! That, at least, would solve one question!

OP posts:
Tissy · 25/11/2003 20:12

I think an obstetrician would have a duty of confidentiality to his /her patient, whoever was paying. The only way you could get round this is by asking her permission to attend the hospital appointments with her .

I agree, as sad as her situation is, bringing her husband into your home, while you are out at work is unacceptable- is she feeding him with your food, doing his washing in your machine, and entertaining him with your TV and booze(or worse!)?

That has nothing whatsoever to do with her pregnancy she's got to go, I'm afraid.

JulieF · 25/11/2003 22:22

Does she not have to provide you with whatever the equivalent to the MATB1 form is? This would need to be signed by her doctor/midwife and state her dates. In the UK employers can't pay maternity pay without being given the form.

tanzie · 25/11/2003 22:29

She has to provide me with written confirmation from her doctor of her due date. She's done this, but it just ties in with what she originally told me. I suppose I could ring him to ask if it was done on the dates she gave him for her LMP or a dating scan.

OP posts:
M2T · 26/11/2003 09:26

Tanzie - I'm sorry you are totally crossing the line here, you don't own this woman! You have been given a due date from her doctor and it is absolutely NOTHING to do with you how the gp came to that date!
I would be furious and disgusted if an employer phoned my doctor to check my dates!
Shame on you!!!

Blu · 26/11/2003 14:21

Just wanted to say I do trust my nanny 120%, and if yours is doing things yu are not happy with, that really is a problem. Tanzie, in respect of maternity cover, is the nanny's salary / maternity pay not reclaimable from the gvt, as it would be in the U.K?

Twinkie · 26/11/2003 14:49

Message withdrawn

M2T · 26/11/2003 14:52

We don't disagree all that often do we Twinkie??

Frieda · 26/11/2003 15:11

I'm sorry, quite apart from your situation, Tanzie, I find it terribly sad that a woman is working away from her family, which she can only afford to visit once a year, and she's soon to bring another child into the world, whom by the sound of it, she's going to be leaving at home for most of the week in a dingy bedsit in another town while she looks after someone else's kids.
I've employed nannies in the past and my bottom line is, if I don't trust someone on a basic level, I wouldn't leave my child with them. I have to say, I've also never expected a nanny to wash my kitchen floor.

Twinkie · 26/11/2003 15:22

Message withdrawn