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Original poster

I had a row with my previous boss after I left.... Can't ask for reference

30 replies

pud1 · 14/01/2012 16:31

dont know what to do. I left my last job 3 years ago to be a sahm. I had bought some tickets from my bosses ( company owner) friend for a concert. After I have left my boss said that I only had given the money for one ticket. I know I had given him money for two. We had a massive row and he actually called the police as my oh called him and told him he was going to go to his house to get the money back. Boss told police that ph had threatened him, he had not and the police couldn't do anything. Anyway i am now not able to get a reference. I know that they will not be able to put anything too bad but i don't want to ask for one. I am sure this story would not sound great in an interview. So wwyd.

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Original poster

pud1 · 14/01/2012 16:47

Shameless bump.

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ShineYourButtonsWithBrasso · 14/01/2012 16:51

Does your ex boss have a PA or secretary? I do all the reference requests for out General Manager, he doesn't even get to see them.

We send a nblanket reply to all reference requests as well, "pud1 worked for x company June 2012 to Sept 2011" you arn't allowed to send a negative reference.

Original poster

pud1 · 14/01/2012 16:55

It's a very samll family business. I know he will refuse to give a reference as he did it for another employee after they left and that would just look as abed as a bead reference. I am tempted to just lie and saynthe company has been sold so can't get a reference but I am rubbish at lying and would probably turn bright red and start sweating in the interview

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SauvignonBlanche · 14/01/2012 17:04

Have you spoken to your former boss since?

I don't get this 'you're not allowed to give a bad reference' nonsense. I once had a former HCA scream this down the phone at me when she had a job offer withdrawn due to my reference.
She was going to be working with extremely vulnerable people, it was my moral and professional duty to give an accurate account of her behaviour whilst I was her manager.

Original poster

pud1 · 14/01/2012 17:08

Have not seen him since. I worked closely with him for 3 years and discussed a lot of HR stuff with him so I know how his mind works. What pisses me off most is that I was very good at my job and have lost a good reference due to what was really a misunderstanding.

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SauvignonBlanche · 14/01/2012 17:12

Could you get in touch?

ShineYourButtonsWithBrasso · 14/01/2012 17:12

Sorry about all the typos, ipad and not concentrating!

Sauvignon I don't understand it either but we are not allowed to send anything more than I wrote above incase the ex employee sues.

I have had a reference back for a new employee that was followed up with a phone call from her ex boss who wanted to make us aware of a few problems he had had with the employee though.

Do you have any other names you could give in place of this one?

Original poster

pud1 · 14/01/2012 17:24

No. Ther was only 5 employees and the others were on the shop floor. I ran the office. I don't know that contacting him will do any good.

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Original poster

pud1 · 14/01/2012 17:25

Think underworld from corrie. That was the set up

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reallytired · 14/01/2012 17:29

If you did some voluntary work or a course at a college then that could be a source of a reference. After three years it can be really hard to get someone to give you a reference even if you got on with them. People come and go in companies and as time goes on your reference from the particular company becomes less and less relevent.

ravenAK · 14/01/2012 17:31

If he's otherwise a reasonable human being, & you got on OK, I'd contact him & say look I know we fell out, but I need this ref - you know I did a good job for you.

(If necessary apologise profusely re: 'misunderstanding' over tickets & offer to reimburse him, however much you have to do it through gritted teeth).

At worst he'll refuse & then you are no worse off - you can explain to new company that you had a personal falling out with him after you left the company, & he's got it in for you - it won't look great but hopefully they'll understand, & appreciate your honesty.

SauvignonBlanche · 14/01/2012 17:33

I know I would need a reference from the most recent employer.
Re. Bad reference, I checked with HR a nod thet agreed I had been correct.

Original poster

pud1 · 14/01/2012 17:37

I have helped a friend set up a business without getting paid. I helped with her website and made some sales appointments for her. If I put this as my last employment would this be accepted as a reference.

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AgentProvocateur · 14/01/2012 17:37

I've given a bad reference before, so it is allowed. Although bad, it was truthful and could all be backed up with evidence (capability / punctuality issues etc). I really don't get why people think you can't give a bad one - surely that defeats the whole purpose of them, and just makes an awful employee someone else's problem?

Original poster

pud1 · 14/01/2012 17:42

It feels like I am unemployable. I could honestly cry

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AgentProvocateur · 14/01/2012 17:50

Don't cry - I'm sure you're not unemployable. Your ex boss sounds like a twat. I'd definitely put down the friend you worked for. Have you done anything with the PTA or volunteering anywhere?

MJinBlack · 14/01/2012 17:51

we dont give references other than, so and so worked here on this grade for this long

Bossybritches22 · 14/01/2012 17:55

pud1

Please don't upset yourself. TBH as an employer I wouldn't rate a 3 year old reference as it wouldn't reflect your abilities now.

Are you actually going for a specific post or talking generally?

Just say on the form or to the interviewer that as the last post you had was over 3 years ago and therefore out of date, you have lost touch with the boss,and you are providing 2 referees who can vouch for you personally, if you can?

You CAN give a bad reference but you must be very careful and factual and state what the problem was, what steps you took to give the employee a chance to resolve the issue etc. Basically a reference shouldn't be good/bad just truthful. If an employee is shite you can still say so without being direct if you are careful with your words. Best one I ever had was,

"X is entirely adequate for the post, please ring if you wish to discuss further"

Obviously I did ring, got the whole story verbally but the woman said she would deny the conversation if it was ever challenged!!

canyou · 14/01/2012 17:55

Don't cry, you an use your friend as a reference just speak to her I am sure she would only be to happy to be your reference, did you help with any toddler group or anything that could be another reference.
re bad reference I don't do that be do say I cannot ans that question or I am not comfortable giving a reference re time keeping/professionalism etc

SauvignonBlanche · 14/01/2012 17:56

I think the website work sounds like a great idea for a referance.

Robotindisguise · 14/01/2012 18:01

Don't cry. Look, I would approach him, making it clear it would be unprofessional of him to refuse you a reference over an issue which arose after you left the company. You've nothing to lose.

If it goes badly, I would say at interview something like "My reference should be excellent, I know I did a good job there. My only concern is that after I left he fell out with my husband over a personal matter. But I'm sure that won't affect anything"

Original poster

pud1 · 14/01/2012 18:03

I am applying for two jobs. One is general admin duties but the other is in the same Market as my previous job and it's reasonably specialised.

I think I will but my friend down as bossy said. I will just tell them I am no longer in contact with prev job as it was so long ago

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LaCiccolina · 14/01/2012 18:25

Id be interested if he said no as he is legally unable to. He has to give you a reference and it has to be positive. IE he cannot say this woman is unemployable/pain in the ass or anything else. He can just leave it at X worked between y date and z date and not put anything else. He can just put dates and something like "turned up on time" which is perhaps rather vague. He cannot say don't trust her with money, I called the police or anything else (I hated her coffee) even slightly defamatory. You are able to request a copy of a reference he sends. He could send something different. You would have reason to sue if he did.

Character references these days often do not come from firms. Many refuse because of potential legal issues if the person concerned read it and disliked it and sued. Ask him for the basics (dates) and ask someone else that knows you properly for a character one. Most mates will and won't mind being contacted in this way. It is somewhat rare in cities for them both to come directly from the firm. Again, some places now discourage employees giving character references incase someone sues......there can be cause for the firm concerned still to be liable....depends on the situation of course.

Either way, it gets you what you need.

Best o luck.

LittleDragon · 14/01/2012 18:50

I found it hard to get references until I started doing some voluntary work. I now put down my voluntary work down as refereerather than my previous paid employment. most voluntary placements will give you a reference even if you can only do a couple of hours a week

Original poster

pud1 · 14/01/2012 18:52

What do you do little dragon. Can't think of anything other than charity shops

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