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Original poster

I've got to sack someone......& I hate it

57 replies

katymac · 12/01/2006 20:54

I took on an 18yo just before Christmas

After 3 weeks of work (tomorrow) she hasn't completed a weeks work (off sick twice, time off twice with either a weeks notice or a days notice) and then today she announced that she is leaving early as she has a yoga class

She only work 10 hrs

I feel that in the first few weeks of work you expect people to attend.......don't you?

OP posts:
edam · 12/01/2006 22:27

You say she's only worked 10 hours ? in three weeks?! I'd sack her a.s.a.p. There is nothing worse, for employer or employee, than being stuck who is crap at their job. But do sit her down and give her a thorough explanation, quoting specific examples, so she has the chance to correct her behaviour in her next job. Obviously don't start the conversation 'you are sacked' or she won't actually take anything else in.

If you are going to give her another chance, make sure you review her progress before the end of the trial period, while you still have the option to sack her with no notice.

Might be worth checking the Department for Trade and Industry website where they have all the gen on employment law.

edam · 12/01/2006 22:29

Oh, I see, she's only supposed to work 10 hours? Even so, demanding time off at short notice esp. leaving early for yoga is taking the p*ss.

Original poster
katymac · 12/01/2006 22:32

I've had a go at a letter....

I employed you on 15th December to start work the following week. Your standard of work is excellent, however in this job I also need reliability.

In the first week you were off sick on Thursday 22nd December and again on Thursday 5th January (your second week of work) ? which is unfortunate ? but ill health cannot be predicted and is beyond your control.

You have subsequently asked for an afternoon off, giving me one week?s notice, which although awkward I was able to accommodate as I felt your driving test was important.

However, I feel giving me one day?s notice of an additional morning off is unreasonable, especially as I would have had to ask parents to find alternative childcare (if I hadn?t been able to cover your hours). I also have concerns that announcing you are leaving half an hour early due to a yoga class implies a lack of commitment to the job.

We have also since agreed that you will no longer work mornings, this will reduce your hours to 8.5 hrs.

You haven?t fulfilled your contracted hours in any of the 3 weeks you have been employed here. We have a trial period with no notice on either side for the termination of contract; however I have decided to give you a warning.

The employment terms are that you should attend work regularly for the hours agreed. You would only be entitled to paid leave of 1 week at the end of 3 months ? this would be at the end of March. I would not expect you to be taking regular time off and I would expect you to work the full hours as agreed.

These hours are

Wednesday 4.30 until 6pm
Thursday 3 until 6.30pm
Friday 3 until 6.30 pm

We will review the situation after 3 week to see if your attendance has improved.

What do you think?

OP posts:
codnotamod · 12/01/2006 22:32

have emailed to finbar
she wont see till tomorrwo
hold fire

Original poster
katymac · 12/01/2006 22:41

Thanks Cod - I appreciate it

OP posts:
VeniVidiVickiQV · 12/01/2006 22:56

Winnie

Have interviewed and taken on enough "youngsters" in my time to know when you will be banging your head against a wall! Sometimes a short sharp shock is what they need. Unfortunately it only benefits them in their new job and doesnt help Katymac at all.

I honestly think you are wasting your time and energy here Katymac. She only works 8.5-10 hours a week and she cant fit yoga, driving tests etc around that? Both put it down to experience and spend your time and energy finding someone more suitable/reliable.

Am wondering, sorry cant help it, why an 18 year old is wanting to work only 8.5 hours a week. Dont know what the job is, is she a mum herself or something?

Original poster
katymac · 12/01/2006 22:59

At college doing a childcare course (hence the childcare job)

I don't like to be a cow - but I need someone who turns up

I have stuff to do (with DD - she loses out when I'm let down)

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 12/01/2006 23:04

Can't you just have a quiet word with her when she next turns up and ask her if she's enjoying the job - I wouldn't make it too formal...yet.

Just say you are hoping that you see for her whole lot of hours next week in sweetly menacing tones

nooka · 12/01/2006 23:16

I would talk to her before sending a letter. Might do the letter as a formal follow up to the talk, but sitting down as a one to one, although difficult is, in my opinion, more constructive. Otherwise she may decide you are a complete cow and make your life even more difficult so that you have to sack her. She may do this anyway, of course.

acnebride · 12/01/2006 23:16

blimey i'm public sector and i have sacked someone who behaved like this

before sacking him i bent over backwards including personally lending him the money for a season ticket (which naturally i never got back)

i would check the legal position but the letter looks thoroughly good to me - not a lawyer though

awful position for you

Original poster
katymac · 13/01/2006 07:38

I am feeling a bit calmer this morning

I may just talk to her rather than giving either letter (there was a much worse one sacking her)

OP posts:
ggglimpopo · 13/01/2006 08:16

Message withdrawn

fairyjay · 13/01/2006 08:25

It won't get better, but giving her a further chance might make you feel better.

If it was me, she would go now, because she's obviously taking the mickey, and you'll have to deal with it at some future point anyhow.

Original poster
katymac · 13/01/2006 12:21

I'm dreading 3 o'clock

OP posts:
Rhubarb · 13/01/2006 12:26

You need to give her the letter. Oral warnings mean nothing. She is so obviously taking the piss and unless you react seriously, she'll see you as a walkover and carry on taking the piss. She is obviously taking advantage of your good nature.
I knew lots of girls like this when I worked in an office, they never lasted very long.

Freckle · 13/01/2006 12:34

A lot of youngsters these days seem to feel that work isn't important, that they will walk into good jobs, that the world owes them a living. Perhaps this would be a good wake-up call to her to make her realise that she can't carry on as though she were still at school and that being a grown-up carries responsibilities.

gomez · 13/01/2006 12:36

Ah Katy don't worry - she won't turn up. It's Friday and she will 'need' to go to the pub with her College pals .

Original poster
katymac · 13/01/2006 12:37

that's what I'm hoping

OP posts:
clerkKent · 13/01/2006 13:10

Don't worry about getting a legal opinion - your letter is fine. But you need to give it to her following a conversation.

I think three weeks is far too generous, unless you also say something like 'any absence in the next 3 weeks will be sufficient cause for me to end the contract'.

Original poster
katymac · 13/01/2006 13:31

I think I will say that

I mean 3 weeks isn't long is it?

And if something serious happens I can always back down can't I?

OP posts:
Finbar · 13/01/2006 14:08

Re the letter...I would not use the word 'excellent' about her work...she will just read that bit and ignore the resta and it will come bcak to bite you.

It may be nice to give her time to improve ...but what if she does turn it on for three weeks..what are you going to say to her then? you'll keep her on and themn suddenly she's past her 12 week probation. I will bet she'll then be unrelaiable intermittently for the next year and then you WILL have a Big PRoblem on your hands when you come to deal with her.

Give her notice and get rid.
Good luck. It's never nice but think of the stress you be having for the next 12 months if you don't.

PeachyClair · 13/01/2006 14:26

You know, there are plenty of 18 year olds whonwould interpert 'well you's better mop up quick then' as OK, I suppose so. Which is very different to I am not happy at all about this.

Have a chat, give her letter if you feel it is needed and go from there. It might perk her up- we all have a learning curve when we start work, this might be hers- if not, well don't feel guilty: this number of hours is play money anyway, she ahsn't got a mortgage so that's it. You gave her a chance, she blew it.

Original poster
katymac · 13/01/2006 15:54

I haven't done it yet & I feel really crap

I will be brave.....I'll see how she responds to our "chat" and decide whether or not to keep her (with notice) or sack her

I hate all this

OP posts:
Original poster
katymac · 13/01/2006 16:35

Well I explained my position and asked her to think about what hours she wants to work

If she wants to work the hours I'm offering she should ring me on Monday & let me know

If she doesn't then she should find another job

I don't think she understood that her behaviour was unacceptable.

OP posts:
VeniVidiVickiQV · 13/01/2006 19:05

I think you are very generous to allow her to make the choice.

Good for you though, disciplinary stuff is difficult sometimes.