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Original poster

Boss wants to just pay me in lieu of annual leave while on ML. I want the extra time off.

80 replies

MrsHuxtable · 14/09/2011 15:50

Ahhhh,
my boss is being complicated again. I spoke to him earlier on the phone about how he wanted to handle my annual leave next year when I'm on ML. I asked him whether he wanted to add it at the start or end of my ML and he said that he wasn't going to do that but instead pay me 1 weeks worth of holiday pay every three months that I'm off.
Now I don't want that and have in the meanwhile found information that suggests he can't do that.

How did everyone else's employers handle annual leave and ML?
We have no written maternity policy handbook or HR department.

OP posts:

acatcalledfelix · 14/09/2011 20:18

X posts! Does that make sense? How long are you planning on taking off?

acatcalledfelix · 14/09/2011 20:18

My first, long gone now....

Bunsouttheoven · 14/09/2011 20:19

Definitely ring acas they helped me when I had questions regarding being made redundant whilst on ml. They also said they'd talk to my employers if I needed them too.

hairylights · 14/09/2011 20:23

Due to a no carry over policy that i have to enforce at work I am taking my annual leave before maternity leave and before I technically accrue it (maternity leave starts January , leave year ends in march).

Original poster

MrsHuxtable · 14/09/2011 20:24

I wouldn't mind if I got the holidays stuck to the end of my leave but my boss said he wasn't giving the time at all, just the money.
I'm taking the whole year off which coincides exactly with my works leave year running from January to December.
I don't really get how the leave year resets itself once I start ML.

Sorry to hear about Felix btw. Cats are such special companions. I still think a lot about my first cat who made it all the way to 22 years...

Buns, thanks, I will ring them tomorrow.

OP posts:

Original poster

MrsHuxtable · 14/09/2011 20:26

hairylights,
that is what I mean. I get why you have to accrue holidays before you take them. Otherwise people would just take their whole entitlement and then quit. But I will def be employed the whole year due to being on ML so when I take the holidays really should make no difference..

OP posts:

hairylights · 14/09/2011 20:32

If your maternity leave period coincides exactly with your annual leave year and there is no carry over allowed then you are stuck with taking the payment instead and it is legal for your employer to do it that way

I don't have to accrue holidays before I take them (but I have to pay back if I leave before accruing them)

Maternity leave accrual isn't changed due to maternity leave it is re same as if you were still at work.

hairylights · 14/09/2011 20:34

The reason I enforce a no carry over policy is that we used to have an ongoing situation with staff carrying over 20 days into a new leave year over and over again - it's bot possible to manage our business with the thread of that much absence in one leave year (ie about 50 days).

hairylights · 14/09/2011 20:36

Sorry - should read "annual leave accrual" not "maternity leave accrual"

acatcalledfelix · 14/09/2011 21:03

The reason the clock resets is because you are entitled to all your benefits when you are on mat leave.
So, forget whether your leave starts in January, or April, or whenever. If you have 6 months off, then you accrue 6 months of leave when you are off. If you have a year, then you accrue a years worth. It may be that your employer lets you take more leave than you've accrued before your mat leave starts, in which case you get less at the end. But, that can get messy as your mat leave starts the day you give birth so potentially could see you loosing some leave. Actrually, no, thinking out loud, it doesn't! As then the clock resets at that point.
I've just started my mat leave, and wasn't allowed to carry any over from "last" year. I'm officially on annual leave until next week, then my mat leave starts, as I've worked 6 months of this leave year so had to take that entitilement before I moved to mat. Nothing is carried over.

Problem is I know nothing about an employer saying they'll pay you instead of you taking the actual time off, sorry!

Aw, can't wait to move into house (in a flat now) so we can get a cat, DS would LOVE it!

acatcalledfelix · 14/09/2011 21:04

And in my trust they've just brought in a no carry-over policy for leave BUT didn't include maternity leave in this, I think because they knew they couldn't do this legally.

Honeydragon · 14/09/2011 21:18

dd was due on the 25th december, I planned to start maternity leave on the 18th, the week before. My remaining holiday was about 7 days so was going to use it sporadically.

My co realised the dates were a pain at the last minute. They spoke to ACAS themselves to check what to do, they then calulated my entitlement for the first 6 months of my maternity leave (including bank holidays) and asked if I would take that and my remaining leave upfront. I agreed and they asked me to pack up and leave there and then

Then they worked on my accrual over the next 6 months as I took the full 12 months. Had I retuned after 9 months I would have accrued the remaining 6 months to use in the last 3 months of the year. As it was I remained off for 12 months. I used paid holiday till the end of the year. Then ACAS told them to give me the choice of being paid for those days or carrying them over, again ACAS told them they had to exercise the right to take the leave, they could only request I take the money. However they were fine with the leave.

I don't know how accurate this is now, but this is how they handled it after seeking advice (they are a legal firm themselves)

hairylights · 14/09/2011 21:30

They can do it legally acat see the posts above.

hairylights · 14/09/2011 21:33

Although they could also exercise their discretion and treat it as "exceptional" and waive the carry over rule.

However that would mean 56 days annual leave in one leave year which is difficult for employers.

acatcalledfelix · 14/09/2011 21:44

I don't underdstand how it would mean 56 days of leave? I HAD to take all the leave I had outstanding until my mat leave started, so that was 3 weeks gone. Once my mat leave starts next week, I'll accrue 33 days when I'm off (or rather the part time equivalent). I can "carry it over" as essentially my leave year is now going to be september till september instead of April to April. I then HAVE to take the leave accrued before I return to work so I get 6 weeks extra off at the end of my mat leave time that I get paid for. They used to let you return after a year and then use your accrued leave up throughout the next leave year, but then they got stuck with people having 50-odd days of leave to use.

Phew, sounds complicated but I don't think it is!

hairylights · 14/09/2011 21:56

You can take ALL of your annual leave in advance of accruing it if you will be off at the end if your leave year.

I'm talking about if your leave year coincides exactly with your maternity leave which I think is what the op said in one of her posts.

So. My al year is April 1st-march 31st.

I am starting ml on 18th January. I know I will accrue 2.5 months of leave prior to the end of al year, but will be unable to take it by April as I will be on ml until July.

It is therefore up to me to take that al before I start ml as I have ample opportunity to take it between then and now. It isn't my employers problem if I've failed to take it, so I would lose it if I didn't.

As much as I'd like to carry it over, I know that there is a no carry over policy hence I need to take it before going on ml or lose it, which seems entirely fair to me.

hairylights · 14/09/2011 21:58

In your scenario, they are allowing carry over.

acatcalledfelix · 14/09/2011 22:15

Oh dear I'm getting really confused now and it's not even me that needs the advice! So do you need to take your leave BEFORE you start mat leave, so before you have your baby? (as legally once bub is born your mat leave starts) Seems like a lot of time to take off prior to the birth which is a bit of a waste, but the employers still have the same amount of time without you, it just starts and finishes earlier.

I'm glad our system is pretty straightforward!

hairylights · 14/09/2011 22:31

Yes, of course I do! It is not my employers fault if I fail to take my annual leave in an annual leave year, when I have known fullwell that 1. There is no carry over allowed and 2. I will be on maternity leave from January - i havs had from May to January to take my annual leave. If I fail to take my leave I can't argue for payment or for carry over as my employer hasn't prevented me from taking it. It's quite straightforward.

We don't offer payment in lieu unless we have prevented someone taking their annual leave.

We took legal advice on this recently for two issues. A person resigning and asking for payment for two annual leave days he had decided not to take (we told him to take the two days in his notice period or lose them) and 2. A woman not returning from maternity leave in early march who failed to notify us in the required timescale but who wanted payment for untaken leave - we ended up not enforcing the notice period but she was on annual leave for the duration of march - so in that case she got what she wanted in a round about way. Had her mat leave ended in April we'd have had to pay her in lieu for the annual leave she couldn't take.

hairylights · 14/09/2011 22:34

It's not a "waste" we have a general use it or lose it policy, if I wasn't pregnant I'd use it or lose it, so I don't see why my employer (and I'm actually the boss) should accommodate my wish to carry six days over to next year simply because I'm having a baby (although it would be nice if they did).

acatcalledfelix · 14/09/2011 22:36

OK, I think I understand! I remember before I went on mat leave the first time (same time of year) and thinking I had a whole year of holiday to take before my mat leave started - great, getting paid for longer - but then found out no, not the case. But fine, just got paid at the end rather than the start.

So what happens to women who go into labour early? Do they get that leave protected?

Need to step away now....!!!!!

hairylights · 14/09/2011 22:46

I'm not sure. Its something I've wondered about as I could end up in that position (starting ml on due date with hols in preceding weeks)

Stepping away too!

Original poster

MrsHuxtable · 15/09/2011 12:31

This has moved on a lot since last night. In case you come back to check, sorry I'm only replying now but I actually ended up in A&E last night because I was in so much pain and worried about the baby.

I would technically have the time to take all my leave before Mat Leave in January (I only get 4 weeks) and there is no question of wanting to carry any leave over into the next year. The problem is just that my boss refuses outright to let me have the holidays in terms of time and just wants to pay me instead.

I have spoken to acas this morning and tbh they weren't very clued up. All they repeated was that it is up to my boss to decide what he wants to do about holidays but agreed that this is unfair towards babies born towards the start of the annual leave year. The guy said he wasn't allowed to give an opinion but said to get legal advice since he can only "hint" that what is happening at my work is against the Equality Act since the only reason my boss refuses my holidays is because I will be on Mat Leave which is due to the fact that I am a woman.

I then got in contact with a solicitor who will phone me back today. So I should be wiser soon hopefully.

Again a big thank you to everyone who has taken the time to comment so far. All of this is really stressing me out. At the end of the day it's only 4 weeks extra with my baby I'm haggeling about but to me it seems worth it and I don't see why I should lose the 4 weeks just because my baby will be born in February.

OP posts:

Original poster

MrsHuxtable · 15/09/2011 16:52

Just wondering if anyone is interested in an update? Totally understand if you've given up btw...

OP posts:

trumpton · 15/09/2011 17:01

Please update. I am very interested.

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