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Original poster

lawyer MNers ... help please

69 replies

roosmoo · 30/10/2005 20:59

apologies if this has been done before, but are any MNers or MNer partners in the legal field??
just wondered if anyone could give me an inside view of the profession - do you enjoy it, would you recommend it to someone else etc...?

i'm currently on mat leave from a phd (literature), due to start back in the new year, but not entirely sure whether i really want to....so am considering other career ideas.

any help/advice of any sort happily received!

OP posts:

mousiness · 30/10/2005 21:05

Which side of the legal area are you interested in? Solicitor / para legal / legal exec / barrister?

Original poster

roosmoo · 30/10/2005 21:12

hi M, mainly interested in solicitor work i think. are you one (asks hopefully?!)?

OP posts:

mousiness · 30/10/2005 21:16

No - I'm a barrister. Can answer some questions about general legal work, though, and details about barristers if you want. May not be able to tonight, however, as I have to go and do some work for tomorrow

Original poster

roosmoo · 30/10/2005 21:36

ok M...thanks for replying!

i guess i'm just wondering what sort of career it REALLY is, iykwim...
...how family friendly (or not!) can it be, how tough is it atm to find a good job, what's the money really like, how much job satisfaction can one reasonably expect...??

i have a strong academic background (BA, MA, top grades) & have always assumed until fairly recently that i'd stay in academia - now unsure, for various reasons. would having a good academic record help?? (hoping it does!)
so i'm trying to sound out something else to do with myself (!), & can only come up with teaching/law.

i don't know any solicitors personally tho, so i'm just trying to get any honest info that i can. barrister's perspective is v. useful tho too, so hope you get a chance to reply - v. grateful for an inside view on the law!

OP posts:

princesspeahead · 30/10/2005 21:42

roosmoo, go and lurk on www.rollonfriday.com if you want an eye-opening warts and all view of the legal profession (mainly solicitors and City based spend a couple of hours looking through the bulletin board and reading the threads that are actually about law and working (as opposed to blowjobs and football).

but don't be tempted to post asking these questions - they are pretty vicious to newcomers there!

Original poster

roosmoo · 30/10/2005 21:44

ta PPH...will def take a look.

are you/dh lawyers??

OP posts:

chipkid · 30/10/2005 21:50

I am a barrister-married to a solicitor-I am currently on maternity leave and will be returning part-time (3 days a week) in january-did this with my first child. Will answer any questions that I can-what sort of law are you interested in?

mousiness · 30/10/2005 21:52

Roosmoos - what sort of law would you want to go into? Commercial / chancery or civil / crime / family? And where in the country?

Original poster

roosmoo · 30/10/2005 22:03

hi chipkid!

i'm fairly clueless abt various types of law , must sound like a right amateur to you legal people! i'm in the north tho, with no plans to move to the city or anything like that - i'm guessing that's where the big job market, training contracts etc. are??
probably would rather stay away from criminal law - tho without knowing much abt all this, as i say. property/commercial maybe? boring? lucrative?

OP posts:

Original poster

roosmoo · 30/10/2005 22:04

oh, or family maybe?
sigh, so clueless1

OP posts:

mousiness · 30/10/2005 22:09

Family law not so lucrative now with all the changes in public funding. In fact, the whole profession is going down the pan in my view. The government is attacking all remaining publicly funded areas (ie family and criminal), with what aim I'm not too sure, but the result so far has not been good. On the civil side (personal injury) the claims farmers that have sprung up over the last few years have badly affected the whole area. There seem to be less and less qualified solicitors dealing with the cases, and more and more large firms who employ unqualified claims handlers to deal with the cases, with the result that they are badly prepared and the proper, decent small high street firms are being pushed out of the market.

I'm a bit disillusioned, myself. Does it show???

MrsFogi · 30/10/2005 22:10

From where I am sitting (starring at going back to work after maternity leave) I would think being a solicitor (city - so don't know about what it would be like elsewhere or doing family law etc) is about the least family-friendly job you can have. From what I understand from colleagues trying to do it hours are shocking (ie no change from pre-baby), partners couldn't give a toss whether you see your kids or not etc etc
I'd be interested to hear from any city solicitors how they've found the return to work....

Original poster

roosmoo · 30/10/2005 22:12

mouse, are you speaking as a barrister rather than solicitor? heard that it's increasingly tough at the bar due to changes in funding...same for solicitors??

disillusioned? no, encourage me!

OP posts:

Original poster

roosmoo · 30/10/2005 22:13

mrsf , what a shame! you have to work like that too when you get back??

hmm, law or teaching??

OP posts:

mousiness · 30/10/2005 22:13

As a barrister you (in theory) have more flexibility as you are self employed and therefore can choose your working days / hours. In reality, as you are self employed, you have to take the work when it comes. There are weeks (I am meant to be working 3 days per week) when I still put in 50 to 60 hours. Other weeks, maybe only 15 to 20. Worst part of the job is probably getting home at night, getting DD to bed and then having to sit down to do 3 or 4 hours preparation for the next day. However, you do get good holidays (provided you can pay your mortgage!) and the money isn't too bad.

chipkid · 30/10/2005 22:17

the legal profession is perhaps not the career choice that it used to be if you are wanting to work in the provinces and are looking at a career that is not all consuming. I too practice out of London-and have a lot of contact with provincial solicitors-many of whom are unhappy with their situation. However many of these solicitors are based in legal aid practices and you will probably be aware that legal aid is constantly under attack, making it harder and harder for thses solicitors to make the sort of living that they used to. Also many solicitors appear to be crossing over to the bar.The commercial side of practice is probably a better option-but as I understand it the majority of high paying commercial work is centred in London-I may be wrong about this however.

Original poster

roosmoo · 30/10/2005 22:18

mouse you coy thing - money isn't too bad? i need hard facts!

really, hours sound horrible (50-60?!! )
you must be wrecked?

OP posts:

chipkid · 30/10/2005 22:24

mousiness-just sent a shiver down my spine thinking of those long evenings of preparation! have been away from the job for 18 months - just remembering why maternity leave was sooo welcome!!!

mousiness · 30/10/2005 22:32

Tell me about it. But you know the "fat cat barrister" headlines are far more interesting.

Money - depends on the work you do. Family law has a base rate for publicly funded work of £120 per directions hearing per 2 1/2 hours in Court. That includes all preparation, and some travel - I gave it up before maternity leave, but on occasions I was working for less than minimum wage when prep & travel time were taken into account. Now I do civil (note commercial law is vastly better paid) and in theory have a charge out rate of £100 per hour. Before you start doing any calculations, however, I earn nothing like £5000 per week, unfortunately. Court hearings are not charged per hour. And out of our earnings comes Chambers' expenses, business expenses, NI payments, pensions and any sickness cover we decide to obtain. I worked out before I went back that to cover child care and £1000 per month into our joint account for bills & mortgage I had to earn gross £1,500 per week. That does not give me any additional money to spend on myself. Now I know why I had no money before - I used to spend the bl**dy stuff.

If you are in a decent set of Chambers doing civil you can earn £100,000 or more. If you want a decent life outside work, then you are looking at £60,000 to £70,000 of which you'll get about 45%.

Original poster

roosmoo · 30/10/2005 22:36

thanks mouse.
tbh i'm a little at the hours/pay ratio! not that i thought it was easy money...but the perception is generally that law=piles of cash?? well def more so than teaching anyway...

thanks for the insight.
not sure what to think now!

OP posts:

mousiness · 30/10/2005 22:41

Don't necessarily listen to me, though. Have been down on the job for years, now. Just can't think what else to do. Tbh though, the hours and pay are not that great outside of London, and to get the high bucks you need to put in ridiculous hours. Pre-babies there were weeks when I worked 7 days maybe 14 hours per day. Not many, and nowhere near as often as city solicitors, but still...

mrsdarcy · 30/10/2005 23:22

Mrs Fogi - I went back as a PSL which is much more family-friendly than fee-earning. I've met some people who managed to do fee-earning after they had children but in my experience City firms are pretty hopeless.

Mosmoo - judging by the number of highly disillusioned solicitors out there I wouldn't recommend it! If you really are keen why not see if you can join a vacation scheme at a commercial firm near to you? Try legal500 for firm details.

rickshaw · 31/10/2005 13:06

Sorry to add another negative post, but I'd stay well clear of the law if you want something lucrative but family friendly. IMO the only lucrative areas of law right now are the commercial ones (i.e. not criminal, family or personal injury) for reasons already posted. But commercial lawyers work ridiculous hours and it's almost impossible to do the job part-time. I'm a partner on maternity leave after my first baby and have no idea how I'm going to cope on return to work. All the lawyers I know are unhappy with their jobs because of the extreme stress and long hours and that's even before you add babies into the equation! Go into teaching or something else secure with family friendly hours.

Issymum · 31/10/2005 13:19

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at OP's request

binkie · 31/10/2005 13:27

And, to respond to roosmoo, there was this one, on Should I Retrain in the Law?

roosmoo, I was in exactly your position (never did finish my phd). Today I am hating my job because I have a viral throat-focussed thing that is making me unable to think straight and/or talk without it hurting. But mostly I like it, almost solely because I am surrounded by clever colleagues - it's quite like academia that way.

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