lawyers! Is a 2:1 good enough to get onto a top law firm?

[vouvrey]

Hi

I'm doing a p/t law degree with the Open Uni. On track to get a 2:1 but is this good enough to get a traineeship with one of the top firms (not necessarily magic circle).

Also is it easier to get traineeships in Birmingham/The North? Do these always pay significantly less than London?

Also once you are in one of these big firms how much choice do you have about which area you specialise in?

Thanks

My firm is on that roll on friday list, is a top 50 not magic circle firm and the information is pretty accurate.

However the firms who pay over 100k are all US firms, and they are different again.

My firm also does a real mixture of types of law. The quick answer to the question is no, all lawyers are not paid the same, it is not balanced out, as it would make no sense to do so. We are a business and the people who bill £400k plus per year on commercial corporate work will of course be paid more than those who bill £200k on less profitable work. Other factors are also relevant, i.e if you do niche work like pensions you may earn more than is you do general commercial work just becuase there are fewer lwayers around. We don't do legal aid, and we don't do pi as there is really no money in that anymore.

Coming back to the OP, I would look at her cv, and possibly consider her, but it would be luck whether I saw her cv or whether it was binned before it got to me, as the third is a real problem whatever the circumstances.

thanks curiosity - that's helpful. I have an ac next week for a firm that has a rather unique blend. suprised that you say there's no money in PI though - or are you thinking that unless a firm is a leader already and/or well placed to get in on the whole tesco law thing it'll be squeezed out

OP - just a thought re the 3rd. On the basic bit of an application form (ie the qualifications list) you could put the uni and the subject but leave the classification blank or just put "exceptional circumstances, please see below" (if it has space)

if possible put it beneath everything else - ie give your current degree more prominence

then find somewhere suitable in the form to explain that you did not complete the degree due to illness/hospitalisation but were still awarded a degree (from an RG uni) because your 2:1 (or better?) level work to date was considered sufficient.

that might be enough to stop people glancing, seeing 3rd on the first page, and putting your app straight in the bin. and it's certainly better than lying.

It might even be worth approaching the university to see if they will formally give you some sort of different classification. not ungraded (because that's worse than a third!) but they might have something they could use other than a third

I left law school 10 years ago at the age of 30. I had a law degree (2.1) from a top 10 university, and good employment track record (7 years in the forces). I just managed to get TC at a top regional firm (paying then about £17k) - many of my then colleagues are now in the City probably earning lots of money.

I only managed to get that TC through contacts. The HR dept had binned me, (inundated with well qualified candidates and they have to start somewhere). Do what you can. Some people worked as paralegals...but you will have to stand out. It will be difficult - but not impossible with the children.

So now, after a break for my own children, I am an in house lawyer, doing a job I do enjoy. Decent hours...and paywise I am in central London, c5yers PQE, and on just over £60k. It is not bad - but it is not about to pay for private education. DH earns a bit more than I do, and we are doing fine, but with London morgage costs, we don't have loads to spare. Both DCs will be at state schools for the foreseeable, but we may reassess in the future.

By the way, I think you have had some really good advice on this thread. Not all of it will be welcome, but don't ignore it. If you want to know additional info on salaries, contact some of the big recruitment firms in the legal sector, they will have done salary surveys - try Michael Page, Hays, Hudson etc.

OP - I think what I was trying to say is that I thought that being "out of town" would be easier in many ways (I moved out due to DH's job - I was also fed up of the hours in London) but out here the pressures of potential redundancy; recording sufficient time to keep internal people happy at the same time keeping costs low so clients don't disappear somewhere else for people to do the work for even more peanuts than we some times do, is pressure in itself. We also have to do a lot more of the "admin" and marketing than you might be expected to do in a large firm (and I work for a well recognised regional firm not a much smaller "high Street" firm) We haven't taken on any new trainees for 3 years and I've had a paycut to keep us going through the recession (although I welcomed that rather than a redundancy situation) - I have two kids and am able to work part time (with another part timer) and even though my firm may be more family friendly than others, there is still that slight feeling that it's a hindrance in your life that you're a woman and you've got kids (that's probably something true of a lot of places, not just the law) though in your case if your DP is going to be the main carer then that probably won't be such a big issue. Clients don't like to think that you might have to drop everything to go and get puking DC from nursery.....I have a blackberry and am on call even on my days off so its not all plain sailing IYSWIM.

When I worked in the City, my boss was one who went through the cv's - he would sit there and criticise the cv's which came in if they did not show one of the "leading" universities or where the candidiate had achieved less than 3 A's/B's at A level and at least a 2:1 degree - I sometimes wonder how I got in there although I joined at 2 years qualified (my CV is pretty average and my a'level grades not wonderful) - I must have sparkled with my personality .

With regard to pay but my DH is paid really well - he's fairly high up in a recognised company (he's not a lawyer) , I'm not paid badly for what I do , but we still wonder how we would pay for private education if it came to it. My DH would love to get a new car this year from his clapped out and very old one but sadly, we can't seem to afford it.

I don't want you to get despondent but I think lots of people have said some very honest things on here which I hope are really helpful in you making your decision.

Good Luck !

Sorry - also agree on the salary. NQs on about 55k I think in silver circle etc. It's not until you are 4-5 yrs you will earn over 100k.
The most difficult thing is your "ethical" point. if you have "ethical" issues with banking, corporate, finance then I'm afraid you could be looking at the wrong firms (I am not sure what is unethical personally but you sound like you have a strong view). If you do employment in top firms, you will be drafting/negotiating the City fat cats' service agreements, their remuneration arrangements, possibly pensions, warranties and transfer etc arrangements on large M&A transactions. You will not be at the tribunal fighting for the little guy. Private client - are you interested in tax avoidance arrangements for seriously wealthy individuals, trusts (again more tax avoidance) and wills? I am not sure from your last post, if you have really thought about what the work involves. You have to decide what matters - earning a high salary, living comfortably and sending your DCs private, or your love for the law / justice. I'm sure there are places where the two intersect but I suspect few and far between (human rights Bar and the like).
PSL unlikely to be an option either - you can't be one of those until you've spent significant time in practice.
Don't get despondent, but you should know what you are facing before you shell out a lot of money - in the City the market is utterly saturated with TC applicants and I know some bright people with good 2.1s who have taken TCs in all sorts of far flung places after a few years earning 25k as a paralegal.

If it helps, in the last recession when TCs were also hard to come by, I know some high-earning City lawyers who moved to less attractive parts of the country to do that bit, and then moved to bigger firms post-qualification.

I think the suggestion of pensions law is a good one, this is a specialised area and it's always going to be needed. It also may help "little people" at bit more than employment law which as stated above will be for the benefit of employers in most law firms. It's a difficult area though, technically harder than corporate law IMO, but better hours.

Recent article in the Guardian about law firm recruitment which may derive from an article in Legal Week