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LOTS of opinions on this please!

29 replies

QueenVictoria · 12/10/2005 17:11

I sent this to my boss today. I have been in "secret" discussions with his line manager as i wanted to go grievance or at least try and resolve things - i find him very difficult to talk to because he is so defensive and never wrong.... Please tell me if you think it rude/confrontational/whatever. Sorry it is such a long one (its an email reply btw).I have amended names for obv reasons. Thanks.

"Since you have asked, my reason for contacting your line manager was originally because of the Staff Questionnaire sent out. At that point DS was 19 weeks old and I had not heard a peep out of the company/you, no congratulatory phone call, response to my message, a card and certainly no flowers. If you say you sent flowers then I won?t argue that fact, but if I had sent someone flowers and not heard back from them I would have called to follow up. I would have called anyway to be honest. I am in no doubt that you have been busy, and I am aware of the changes going on with Rentokil at the moment but I don?t believe it to be reasonable excuse enough to not contact me at all in 6 months. That is just how I feel.

I have to say I am not particularly happy to have be put on the spot with questions over the phone about vague excerpts from emails your line managers secretary has forwarded to you. The simple fact is that I have reflected a great deal during my maternity leave about our ?working relationship? . The lack of contact from you since the birth of my son has compounded how I feel about how the last 2 years have been, which is as follows:

It is my opinion that you do not like the current working arrangement of my working part time and you make your annoyance quite clear often times.

You regularly reminded me (unsolicited) that I cannot return to my original role full time and would have to take a ?step down?. You repeated told me that you really wanted the role fulfilled in a full time capacity. You have also mentioned often who it was that originally wanted my job.

You have regularly used the decrease in the number of my working hours as the excuse for underperformance when you are well aware that this factor is beyond my control (and indeed if I wanted to go full time I couldn?t anyway). In fact you insisted I enter into my appraisal (with which you couldn?t fault with me I might add) ?problems with workload due to number of hours worked?. I remember clearly a conversation we had once when asking for unpaid leave due to a family problem to which your response was that I have enough time off as it is now I am part time without taking annual leave AND unpaid leave. I may have misconstrued this but I don?t see how I could have.

I think I performed exceptionally well last year yet my pay increase didn?t reflect that. In fact my pay increases over the last 2 years in my opinion, have been the lowest they have ever been in my employment with the company (percentagewise). This amongst other little comments etc here and there all add up to me feeling thoroughly undervalued and demoralized. I thought I might have been being a little oversensitive about it, but your lack of contact has only proven to reinforce it to me.

I have always found you to be difficult to talk to, our telephone conversation today has proved that. (No apology for lack of contact, just excuses that you are busy). This is why I contacted your line manager. I sought his advice and counsel on how to resolve this. Unfortunately it has come to a point where I was due back on Monday and couldn?t delay it any further. I felt that handing in my resignation was the ?last resort? .

Im sorry if you find this hard to swallow but I don?t think I can convey my disappointment any more clearly. I do not wish to leave a company I have 10 years invested in but I don?t see how else this can be resolved. Which is where the comment regarding transfers arise ? they don?t just happen because an individual wants it.

Yours sincerely

QueenVic"

Honest opinions welcome - seriously!

OP posts:
jessicaandbumpsmummy · 12/10/2005 17:15

Well done.

Thats it really. Boss sounds like a twat and you have put him in his place.

WELL DONE

LIZS · 12/10/2005 17:20

he sounds like an arse ! Is he married , does he have kids ? Suspect not !

Hope you cc'd it to his line manager, personnel etc.

TrickorTwiglett · 12/10/2005 17:21

honestly?

I don't know the situation or the story but in isolation I would say as an email it is confrontational. It does not seem designed to elicit any kind of response other than well f'ck you right back

if you just wanted to put your point across you have done very well

if you wanted to try to salvage your job with this person then I don't think you have

I think you have probably paved the way for a sex discrimination grievance but you need to file one before 3 months after you leave.

Bellie · 12/10/2005 17:25

this is a really well written and unemotional email - not meaning that in a bad way - just that you are stating the facts without your emotions really getting in the way - ie you are a twat.
As lizs says hope you copied everyone in otherwise he could deny that he received it etc (I had a boss that did that once!!)
Good luck with taking this forward

QueenVictoria · 12/10/2005 17:30

He IS married and has two kids. Thats the problem sometimes. If his wife didnt go through it then he doesnt understand. In fact he said to me on the phone "When my wife was on maternity leave her company didnt contact her" like that makes it okay or something. I did CC it to his line manager.

The reason he has finally got in contact today is that he is claiming to have not received two letters from me in sept to say i am returning please correct your dates and then my resignation last friday. His excuse keeps being that he hasnt received anything. Today is the first time since i walked out the office on 24th March 2005 that i have spoken to him. He doesnt see whats wrong with that.

I sent copies to his line manager to make sure they were received which is how he has ended up calling because he is miffed that i have got his line manager involved.

OP posts:
CreepyJess · 12/10/2005 17:30

I'm not too sure about the parts about flowers.. are they really relevent? I mean, I know most firms would send flowers in such circs.. but they are not obliged to are they..

QueenVictoria · 12/10/2005 17:36

no, the flowers arent relevant but i reply to the message that we had given birth would have been courteous imo (my mum even got a card from her employers and i got some from my dp's employers. I also got flowers AND a home visit last time i had a baby, but that was before i went part time.......)

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CreepyJess · 12/10/2005 17:40

Yes I do agree.. 'normal' employers would send congrats by some means or others.. was just not sure that the banging-on about flowers helped the overal effect of your other-wise professional-sounding email. But I didn't realise you had already sent it when I first replied.. bit late to worry about it now.

He does sound a bit of a shite!

QueenVictoria · 12/10/2005 17:46

He has just replied to it!

see below

I am confirming receipt of your e-mail and attached documents.

I simply wrote to you in Septemeber asking for a confirmation of a return date and I am very surpised with the course of events that have taken place after that.
I felt it was necessary to call you in light of what has happened and did not expect this to upset you in any way.
I can see you are clearly very upset about a lot of issues that you have just bought to light to me and I will reply to you shortly.

Regards

He definitely doesnt seem to have a grasp of what i have been saying. Or is it just me? Or is he ass covering?

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SenoraPostrophe · 12/10/2005 17:48

It's very confrontational.

I would leave out all the personal stuff (the lack of contact etc) and keep the rest brief. An email is not the place to come out with specific things that wind you up - it will only wind him up.

SenoraPostrophe · 12/10/2005 17:49

whoops - didn't realise you had sent it. he's probably too busy throwing bricks at the monitor.

QueenVictoria · 12/10/2005 17:53

i suspect you might be right about the bricks SP

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QueenVictoria · 12/10/2005 19:11

bump for the evening folk

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Whizzz · 12/10/2005 19:18

Well done on the email- it does sound like hes an arse. Personally I think I would have left out the flowers bit & tried to keep it as business like & non-emotional as possible.

His response seems to be a 'Oops what do I do now sort' of email. Maybe he genuinely didn't understand how his comments affected you (he is a man after all ). I have a similar sort of boss who couldn't understand why when I applied to reduce my hours & was turned down by him, I got a bit cross ! I'm not trying to defend him but some just do not see & need a swift kicking to remind them !

startingtobehalloweenylover · 12/10/2005 19:25

sorry, are you resigning?

i don't quite get the "point" of the e-mail (probably me being stupid)

what did you hope to achieve from it? if you want him to change... or do something then you need to tell him what you want changing!

QueenVictoria · 12/10/2005 20:01

THanks whizz. He is an arrogant ignorant arse tbh. I was in contact with his manager who organised sending me flowers and a teddy btw. The flowers are bone of contention because he just kept saying he'd done it (if it were me i would be angry at the florists immediately wouldnt you?)

star...lover - i had contacted his boss several weeks back saying that this was the situation etc etc and what should i do, how do i go grievance because he is line mngr etc and his boss said he would look into, suggested a softly softly approach and would get back to me. He never did. I have written resignation letter which i sent last friday and emailed a copy to his boss on the same day. I was right to because he claims to have not received any correspondence from me. Yet his line mngr was aware every time i sent him something. Today was the very first time since i left on 24th March he has rang me and he put me on the spot on the phone whilst i had my DD and DS being monkeys so i answered his questions by email IYSWIM. Just didnt know how it came across. Am aware that in ideal circumstances you dont email things but i was tearful as well and had a bit of a lump in my throat, because that is how he makes me feel.

OP posts:
startingtobehalloweenylover · 12/10/2005 20:05

ahh right ok... well in that case it's a great e-mail!

QueenVictoria · 12/10/2005 20:15

I agree it is a bit confrontational though. Thats why his reply is so odd. Its sooooo not him. He must be arse covering.

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staceym11 · 12/10/2005 20:31

it doesnt seem to be too confrontational to me, you are stating how you feel and whats going on with you. good on ya love!!!

Passionkiller · 12/10/2005 21:04

Well done! Your e-mail was brill, especially if you were upset at the time. He is arse covering defo.

QueenVictoria · 12/10/2005 22:19

im feeling much better about it now! was worried it sounded too much like a hormonal housewifey rant which is somewhat unprofessional isnt it!

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smw9927 · 13/10/2005 20:52

QV, I'm sorry to hear that you have had such problems with your mananger. I wondered whether you were intending to make a claim to an employment tribunal. If you are, there are new rules that came in last October that mean you should present a grievance first (called dispute resolution), even though you have left employment. If the "dispute" isn't then resolved (or if your employer stuffs up dealing with the grievance) you can then present your claim to Tribunal. If you have taken out a grievance, you are given a bit longer than the normal 3 month deadline to make the Tribunal claim.

ACAS & the DTI have some useful info on their websites.

BTW, the reply from your boss seems to be a holding "what the hell do I do now?" reply, rather than someone who has missed the point. I doubt that he could have missed your point!! He is likely to be careful about admitting that he is to blame when his replies coudl be seen by a Tribunal. I imagine (if he's in any way sensible) that he is seeking advice from the company on how to respond.

emmatom · 13/10/2005 21:17

Brilliant e-mail in my opinion. You've made yourself sound like a real person, not a statistic in the company.

You don't sound emotional, just honest and you sound like you're someone who's confident enough about yourself and your abilities to be able to say these things.

If you leave/have left the company, then it's their loss to have pushed out a competent employee like you obviously are.

QueenVictoria · 13/10/2005 23:04

Thanks smw & emmatom. Its sometimes hard to know whether you are over reacting or over personalising a situation sometimes.

SMW - you seem to know quite a bit about these things - what do think about circumstances for grievance and going to tribunal if you have asked your boss' manager how to go about going grievance/what to do and how to deal with the whole situation since our company grievance procedure means you complain to your line manager in the first instance (and my complaint was about my line manager) and i have subsequently acted on his advice?

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smw9927 · 18/10/2005 20:06

QV - not sure how a Tribunal would view the request for info on making a grievance you made to your 2nd line manager. If it was verbally he might deny the discussion took place (or "forget") and then a Tribunal would have to weigh up whether it thought you had made a genuine attempt to resolve the situation through the company's grievance procedures (basically weighing his word against yours) - even if it believed you, the Tribunal may decide that you should have put your complaint in writing to the 2nd line manager. The legislation is too new for me to judge how they might react (and I'm a lowly HR person - not an employment lawyer, so someone with more experience and qualifications in this area may have a different view).

To be safe, if you think you might want to go to Tribunal, you could think about writing to the 2nd line manager stating that you are submitting an official grievance and detailing the issues you would like resolved - make sure that they relate to whatever Tribunal claim(s) you may bring.