Help me help my daughter - work issues - legal help needed

[tribeleader]

My daughter is a hairdresser and has been in her place of work for 2.5 years, she is the longest serving employee

Today she was told she needs to go to another salon tomorrow as she wasn't needed at her salon. This salon is 20 miles away, the one she has been at for over 2 years is a 5 min walk. She has never been given a contract even though she has requested one many times. Transferring would mean she would be spending £100 per week on travel and parking, she only earns £1k per month

I had a very brief conversation with ACAS and they said no one could make her transfer as without a contract, she has no terms and conditions to meet

I have told her to go into normal place of employment tomorrow morning and she has informed her manager she will not be going to other branch. He said he will speak to us tomorrow. I think he is probably speaking to his boss and maybe getting legal advice too.

I have told her to carry out all her duties as normal, even if they are unfair (manager likes to get her loo cleaning) that she doesn't have to agree to a meeting without being able to take someone to support her and not to do any till work without a witness (in case they accuse her of theft, which I wouldn't put past them)

Are these the right things to do? What else does she need to do? She's only 19 and is terrified she is about to be sacked

She has put up with a very sexist environment - only 3 girls left on staff, manager keeps replacing them with boys. He treats the boys much better than the girls and hasn't acted when one boy has touched my daughter inappropriately numerous times.

She has huge responsibilities - she is one of 2/3 key holders and is often asked to lock/open up on her day off & she cashes up if manager isn't there (as no one else can be trusted ) She works hard, is never late and rarely takes a day off sick.

I want to make sure she handles this perfectly as the ACAS man said she would have a case of unfair dismissal if they sack her or cause her to leave. Should we go see a solicitor now or wait to see what happens??

She knows she now needs to find a new job but in this market, it's not going to be easy and of course will have to build up to having employment rights again - it's so unfair. She has been so upset this evening, I'm sure the manager was banking on her being young and just transferring - not going to happen!

On the face of it all that's happened is her manager has tried to relocate her and she has (within her rights) said no. You are probably right her boss is now taking legal advice and there is no indication at present that he will attempt to force her to change or sack her. Him taking legal advice is a good thing as any vaguely competent legal advisor will put him straight.

She doesn't have the right to insist on being accompanied to any meeting with her manager I'm afraid. If she is asked to meet him and it becomes clear the meeting is about dismissing her or similar, then she should adjourn the meeting for that reason and there's no harm asking to take a colleague with her, but she needs to know she doesn't have the right to insist depending on what the meeting is about.

In terms of her past treatment/failure to deal with sexual harassment, do you have any indication that those things are relevant here, and/or does your daughter want to do anything about those?

Thanks for answering

I have told her re if there is a meeting, to go ahead - but take notes on whats said. Manager has acted normally so far this morning but has said that if the owner/boss finds out she is there and not at other salon - she is fucked

The boy/girl thing I think could be relevant, he has shown bias towards the boys since he started, I think telling her she needs to move to another branch, is a female thing

He's says there is no room for her but in the last 3 months, he has taken on 2 new stylists (friends of his, both male)

Will find out more today about how to get him to sort a contract - I take it she will have the chance to read anything over a few days before she signs anything? I've got a feeling something will be produced and she will be expected to sign it there and then

She shouldn't sign anything there and then, you are right, and should ask to take it away to read properly and come back with any questions at all.

hopefully if he is taking legal advice he will be told exactly what the position is and what his responsibilities are. Do come back once anything else has happened if that would be useful.

Every member of staff have now said 'why don't you just go, stop causing trouble' including the manager.

The manager told her this morning that if the owner discovers she is at her normal salon, then 'she's fucked' Owner telephoned and she asked to speak to him and he said 'why are effing bothering me with this, speak to manager'

Manager handed her a contract to sign, which she refused and said she is going to be taking it home. There are number of things in the contract that seem suspect to me - one being holiday entitlment is 20 days and public holidays are normal working days bar xmas, new year and easter sunday - that isn't enough holiday is it? It also says once employment is terminated, you cannot work in another salon within 2 miles of her salon - isn't that asking a bit much?? It says aswell, that they can move her to another salon but will give one months notice - they told her yesterday pm that as of today am, she would need to work from other salon as there is no place for her at current one

Anyway, ACAS said that salon needs to give her 2 weeks paid written notice of changes to terms (ie issue a contract) and then we have a meeting to discuss said contract if it's not agreed

She is terrified they will sack her today, can they? Want to have the facts to what they can and can't do, so she isn't shafted

Holiday entitlement is 28 days including bank holidays - so they are wrong there.

The restrictive covenant may be fair and enforceable - but only if it is reasonable to protect their legitimate business. And of course would not be inforceable if they were to sack her.

If they sack her today, she is almost certainly going to be able to sue them for unfair dismissal and potentially sex discrimination.

TL - so sorry to hear about this. an awful situation for your daughter, but I would encourage her to bring it to a head as she's too young to be putting up with this and having her confidence knocked.

Right issues in order:

• in the absence of a contractual term which entitles them to do so, it is extremely unlikely that any tribunal (ET) would find it reasonably to incur that level of travel time or cost. Are they saying there's a reduction in need for stylists at her salon (which is redundancy), in which case why have they taken on 2 additional staff? What are they proposing to do - sack her if she doesn't move? based on what you've told us she would win an unfair dismissal claim.
• teh sex discrimination. this is always harder to prove, but she should start keeping a diary of events. If she has a meeting she should also raise the fact that she complained about her treatment by another member of staff and nothing was done - she needs this on record.
• she needs to make a note of ANY discussions and incidents so far - conversations so far about the move of office, any incidents she thinks indicates favourable treatment of men at work.

I CANNOT OVERSTATE HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO KEEP NOTES OF EVERYTHING. ETs can only reach conclusions based on the evidence in front of them.

• when she leaves/is dismissed she needs to be able to prove she's looked for other work (called 'mitigating your losses') so neep a copy of all jobs applied for, aplication forms sent in, print outs from job centre etc.

if she can get them to sack her, rather than her resign, she has a stronger case. Again, they are likely to say something like "you can fuck off" or "don't bother coming back" and she needs to clarify that she considers herself dismissed, not just sent home for the day. you won't believe how many cases centre on whether the individual was actually dismissed.

Good luck!

It's getting worse!

Manager is now saying she was chosen to leave because she hasn't met her targets (she has and he books the appointments) and that she is always off sick. She isn't, she had 2 days off this week, telephoned him direct first thing monday morning, he then called her back as he was running late to get her to open up, she refused. She went to the docs on tues, normal day off on weds and back in thurs - when he told her he needs her to work 20 miles away. She has been to the doctor everytime she has had time off which hasn't been that often (he complained when she had a wisdom tooth removed and took time off - even though she has been to the docs and A&E who said her jaw was damaged!)

He has said today, as she gets paid - she has a contract and it's up to them where they send her

That she should just leave as she will not be getting paid as she isn't at the other branch and that is where her job is now

He still hasn't given her anything in writing regarding transfer nor given her company handbook.

Acas is closed now so can't get immediate help. The owner isn't answering his phone but DD doesn't have his number - manager is dialing it not her. She wants to walk out but I'm not sure what happens if she does, will it mess it up if she does?

I really don't know what to do

well, if she isn't going to get paid, she might as well leave. I would write a letter along the lines of

dear owner (CC the manager)

i am writing to set out issues concerning your instruction that I move branch. I have raised the following objections (put in detail about conversations so far and the impact in terms of cost, time of travel). Today you said i had been chosen to move (you agreed there was no consultation) due to performance and sickness. My performance record is as follows (insert) my sickness record is as follows (insert). You told me I would not be paid if I didn't move.

During the 2.5 years i have worked in [salon] i have been subjected to sexual harassment which i reported but was not dealt with, and have watched men be recruited and receive more favourable treatment (examples). you are now insisting i transfer despite recruting 2 additional stylists for the salon recently, for reasons which are unfair and untrue.

I regard your behaviour throughout my employment to be unreasonable and your statement that I will not be paid goes to the heart of the employment relationship. i therefore beleive I have been constructively and unfairly dismissed. Given that the instructions have come from you and there is no more senior authority in the business, i see no point in appealing. I am entitled to be paid until [date] plus 2 weeks pay in lieu of notice and [any outstanding holidays].

yours sincerely
TL's daughter

if she can get any evidence to take with her - copies of her appointment bookings, does she have any wage slips hat would show she's been there 2.5 years and there have been few deductions for sickness? even if she was underperforming or "always off sick" he can't just transfer her or dismiss her. with 2.5 years service he would have to follow a procedure. From what you've said, your daughter has a very strong case. the only difficulty is it could take up to a year for it to be heard and it's hard to enforce compensation payments.

she has all her pay slips and has only filled in one sickness form, was paid for all others - that was the wisdom tooth but that was two years ago. She has some time off last year as she was hospitalised for bronchitus/asthma

She thinks that he will make her redundant today (co worker thinks that is what will happen but told her secretly after conversations she had been involved in)

Her targets are one of the highest in the salon I have found out today. She is expected to bring in £1k per week - which is £200 higher than stylists that have 3 more years experience and the same as someone who charges almost double for services and is 3 levels higher than her.

My head is reeling today. Want to make sure we get all procedures in place for all eventualities but finding it hard to get my head around. I'm guessing I need to find a solicitor on monday

Still have had no word from the actual owner/boss - surely he should be involved?

If she is sacked or made redundant - what do we have to do? Do we write and say we don't agree?

If nothing is said today, she will put in a grievance, I have a template I have found online. Does she request to have a meeting with manager or boss? Can the boss refuse?

I think your daughter also needs to focus on what the best outcome on this can be for her. It does not sound sustainable for her to remain in employment there so presumably she needs a good reference to get a job elsewhere and should at the very least get paid 4 weeks notice.

I'm not an employment expert, but it may be worth sending the letter hermione recommends but being prepared to go for a compromise agreement with a good reference and redundancy payment over and above legal minimum rather than pushing it all the way as your daughter is young and it sounds like she has been very unlucky in her place of work so might be better to put the majority of her energies into finding a more suitable job rather than fighting an employment case.

That's just my thoughts and as I said I'm not an employment expert, she is very lucky she has support from you though.

I agree that she needs to be looking for another job and she has made steps to get that started. Problem is not many jobs around, she has a car loan that needs to be paid and other outgoings

I also think she has been treated appallingly and I don't want them to get away with it. This manager is not good, he blows hot and cold and the staff are all terrified of speaking out. This isn't the first time he has tried to do this sort of thing and it is usually set off by someone having a day off sick - he threatens all sorts, like transferring. This is the first time he has gone through with it as far as I know

I don't want DD to think she should just slink off without a fight - she deserves to be treated fairly

She is 19, a keyholder, cashes up - only 3 other people do those things - she is never late and has had very little time off, she cleans constantly (something the men don't do) She doesn't deserve to be treated this badly and also needs to know she has rights

Ideally, I'd like her to leave with excellent references and find a nice job nearby but her managers actions have been totally out of order & bullying imo, I want him held accountable

sounds like they will probably end up missing her once she's gone. Its hard now but i'm sure she'll end up finding a job she's much happier in and in a few years time she'll look back and be glad this happened as it made her leave a place she wasn't totally happy with.

agree. while tribunal proceedings can be stressful, it can also be very empowering to (eventually!) win and have the manager told off by the judge! whatever she decides to do, she does have rights and should leave with her head held high. she's standing up for fair treatment. as i said before, if she can get them to dismiss her (and redundancy is a dismissal) then her case is easier. Has she documented the conversation where she was told she wouldn't be paid? that would almost certainly constitute constructive dismissal - this is where the employer's actions are so unreasonable that the employee is entitled to resign but regard themselves as dismissed.

how did things get left at the end of today?

She has come home with a letter stating that the position of graduate stylist is being made redundant and inviting her to a meeting on Tues. she can bring a trade union rep or a work colleague to the meeting (no family members).

There is 2 graduate stylists at present - she is the only one being made redundant
All the paper work for the salon lists graduate stylist prices
One boy has just finished training so is ready to become a graduate stylist

Can they lose her position and put this boy in as the same position??

For the meeting, who can she take with her? She doesn't belong to a trade union and no colleague wants to go in with her as they are scared for their own jobs. Can it be a family friend? Can she postpone the meeting until she can find someone to accompany her?

Can she request that owner/main boss attend meeting or have another meeting with him as there are things we don't think he knows about where the manager is concerned - how he has others open up, how he disappears regularly from work for personal business (he bought a car on Friday, was out of the salon all afternoon), he has been speaking of leaving and setting up his own salon and has asked staff members to go with him etc

Every employee was given a contract today

We've also found out today that a former employee recently won a tribunal (he was sacked and managers friend was bought in) but he hasn't been paid what he won

She will start jobhunting on Monday but we can't let these people do this to others and she needs to know she can fight for her rights.

I need to speak to ACAS on mon and maybe also get separate legal advice too

Would your daughter be able to do some freelance home hairdressing to tide her over until she gets another job?
Maybe poach some of her clients from the salon as they have been such bastards to her.
I have been having my hair done in my house for more than 10 years now since my favourite ever hairdresser left the salon and went freelance.

sounds like they have taken some legal advice.

they need to go through reasonable consultation to make a role redundant. I would ask why she is the only graduate stylist at risk of redundancy - how did they determine the selection pool? i would also go on record that the outcome is a foregone conclusion because of the previous conversations, and be really specific. take her own notes of hte meeting and send them to the manager as her record of events.

she is entitled to be accompanied by a colleague or union rep only.

there have been new enforcement rules come in to make it easier to get compensation awarded by an ET, but as i said before, it could be a year before she gets there. Also, as they are starting to follow some sort of process, it is going to get more and more complex to argue her case.

i'm so sorry. there are just some shitty employers out there and it sounds like she's got stuck with one of them. it might just be one to chalk up to experience.

HAve spoken to solicitors and we are meeting with one on weds. I have legal advice including in insurance, spoken to them and they will be in touch - in the meantime will pay for advice until they kick in

She phoned and requested that the meeting be postponed from tues until thurs but he refused

She also asked if no colleague was willing to attend the meeting, could she bring my sister in to take notes and listen only - as she is dyslexic and note taking is hard - he refused

Told her that as her mum was running the show, he was going to make sure everything was done properly

So, she will go to the meeting, sit quietly and write down what she is able to and we will speak to the solicitor to see where to go from here.

She has a list of questions but not sure how many she will be able to ask (she's scared and upset, I think she might just cry and not say much)

How/why was she selected for transfer
How/why was she selected for redundancy
Do they want her to work her notice
How long is her notice
Can she use owed holiday as part of her notice

What else should she/can she ask?

Tell her to record the meeting as well.

What does your daughter want to do about this?
I know you are keen to sort it out for her but this could be a hard process as hermione says above and your daughter is the one who will have to attend the meetings and answer the questions.

She wants to be treated fairly. She is happy for me to make the enquirys and is wanting to go as far with it as she can

She is young and doesn't know where to go, who or what to ask, so I'm helping her

I really don't think that she should attend that meeting on her own. If you are covered for legal advice can a solicitor go with her? Telling her on Saturday about a meeting on Tuesday is not acceptable in terms of notice and has clearly been organised to prohibit her from appropriate representation

Unfortunately, it seems that they can conduct the meeting without her. It's about following guidelines. The good thing is (so I've been told) is that a tribunal will look at how reasonable they and she has been, and the fact that they could very well be seen as unreasonable on the timing and set up of the meeting

At the last minute, a colleague has stepped forward to go in with her, so she now has someone to help with notes at the very least

She is going to ask if she can record the meeting but if he says no, she can't

How did the meeting go, TL? I really hope things have improved for your DD. What a horrible introduction to the working world!

I'm also interested - how did it go TL?

How is your dd doing?