Annual Leave not granted for ANY weekend in the year

[sneezecakesmum]

I am absolutely livid. We have started a new rota system at work which means I work every weekend plus 1 weekday. I am quite OK with this as it suits family.

We have an automated system for requests which grant or reject requests.

I have been told I must request according to my 'work pattern' When I do this weekends are auto rejected! as oversubscribed. I now have to ask nicely (and could be refused) for a weekend off or I am faced with never having more than 5 days off in a row and effectively never having a summer holiday.!!!

Can my employer effectively prevent me from taking a meaningful holiday break. I spoke to another employee yesterday and she hasnt got more than 5 days off consecutively all year!

I will contact my union tomorrow and have written to my team manager. Surely it is against my Human Rights as I am entitled to enjoy a 'family life'??

Natural justice would say you need time off and more than 5 days in a row. Whether that's sustained in Employment law or not is another matter. Now, how long before someone jumps in saying you're lucky to have a job? :( Play the game: ask nicely, do whatever it takes. You need time off.

Christi - and if they turn me down?? even if I grovel they could still turn me down!! Never in my life imagined an employer can do this. I worked all over xmas and all new year because they fell on a weekend. If push comes to shove I will go off sick for a weekend - thats 12 days in a row

Not against either human rights or employment law obligations, no.

As long as you physically get your statutory holiday entitlement, when you get it is entirely between you and your employer.

Is it a blanket 'no weekends off' policy, or is it that everyone wants weekends off and only one or two at a time can or something?

What was the previous annual leave policy if any?

Grovel to the machine. Bummer about Xmas and NY too.

The human rights act say I am entitled to a family life, denying me this I think is a breach of that law. However it has not been tested in a court of law so no legislation exists - maybe my union would take it to brussels!!

The gov website says I am entitled to 6.5 WEEKS not xx days?? would this be a factor for the union? Its a case of weekends can be taken but too many people have snapped them up. Weekends are our busiest times.

The previous annual leave policy didnt cause this problem because there were no set rotas, but sometimes certain weeks were fully booked and unavailable as in any job. We signed alteration to contract paperwork.

I will grovel to the machine, but conspire (union and imaginary sickness) behind its back! They want to get rid of a lot of the long term staff (me) and its just another in a long line of ploys.

You are entitled to 5.6 working weeks, so whatever your normal number of days off per week is, you get that multiplied by 5.6.

I really think it if you try and claim not being able to take more than 5 days in a row is a breach of your human rights you are not going to get anywhere at all and I would expect your union to refuse point blank to consider that kind of claim.

It's fine for an employer to refuse requests for holiday if dates are oversubscribed, and it's also fine for them to dictate exactly when holiday is taken. As long as you get reasonable opportunity to take your the holiday entitlement you have no legal complaint at all.

If you struggle to find enough days to fit in all your holiday entitlement because the days you want are already booked up, you should ask your employer to specify when you can take them to make sure you get your entitlement.

You are allowed weeks - that includes weekends, even if you nromally work them.

Weeks means 7 consecutive days (including 2 days off if weekends are included as workdays)

There's no obligation for the employer to allow the employee to take complete weeks off. 5.6 weeks is how the total amount of holiday entitlement is calculated. It doesn't mean the employee gets to insist they can take full weeks.

If there was a rule that complete weeks were not allowed, that would be a bit mean and unusual, but certainly not illegal.

Here there is no such rule, it's just other people have got in earlier and booked out the days the OP wants.

I wouldn't pull sickies when you're not ill. That's dishonest and possibly gross misconduct.

It's a new policy. Therefore you'd expect teething problems, but how you approach it can make all the difference.

I think taking a practical approach, ie explaining that the most productive employees are well motivated and well rested and that a few tweaks to the process would help enormously.

Some businesses (particularly those involving cash handling) require you to take a block of a fortnight once a year for insurance purposes. They have a better chance of spotting fraud if you're away for a bit. Does your work have any policy along those lines?

I really think you should try to resolve this informally and I would be appalled if I were your line manager and you just went off sick instead of discussing it. It's a crappy attitude and I'd be looking to use the disciplinary process to manage it.

I will certainly be discussing it in a reasonable manner, and trying to negotiate reasonable time off so I can actually go away for a fortnight in the summer like everyone else in this country.

Unfortunately you cannot get to talk to the people who run the rota system, it all has to go through emails or the line manager, by which time even more weekends have been taken (I think all the summer ones have done now).

I will try every reasonable approach I can, BUT if they behave unreasonable in refusing me - and I do believe it is unreasonable to expect someone never to have more than 5 days off in the year, then I SHALL go off sick. I have an excellent sick record and have never taken time off, but when I feel shat upon from a great height, as I do now, any loyalty goes out the window as far as I am concerned.

I will look for a new job too and if I can take them to a tribunal for constructive dismissal I will because I think it is appalling never to spend one weekend with my children, not one barbeque in the summer - I am well p***

Regarding gross misconduct re sickies the onus is on them to prove it.

You're not going to be able to bring a constructive dismissal claim for this, you can forget that. It's annoying but it's not illegal in any way shape or form.

You say the summer weekends have all gone, which presumably means there are at least some non-summer weekends still available anyway? You just don't want those ones, then?

No one is saying you can't have more than 5 days off in a row, they are just saying not more than x people at a time can take a weekend off. And if there are still any weekends left at all you can't stay anyone is trying to stop you having a family life anyway.

Sorry but although I sympathise you sound like you are overreacting massively to what is an annoyance and at risk of making a fool of yourself threatening legal action.

Loads of people can't take any time off at all in the summer anyway - it's frequently very fought-over in workplaces for obvious reasons as being the most popular time to take off. Again, annoying but certainly not illegal.

Ive personally never been in a job where a summer break is denied by the employer, though I accept it is not illegal. btw my employer has had more complaints against it than any other organisation in my union, says it all about the way they treat their staff.

Non summer weekends have also all gone, unless there is an odd one hiding out there, as my colleague has already tried.

It is discriminatory against people who work weekends, and unsocial hours, as people who already have weekends off, mon - fri workers - have been easily able to get their working week off because monday to friday is available most weeks in the summer because they are the periods of low service demand. During the summer (9-5, mon-fri) we often sit doing naff all.! Not me though as I am rarely there during those hours! I work like a navvy at the weekend!

Agree with flowery - a massive over reaction and it is ludicrous to claim constructive dismissal for not getting your own way. Making a constructive dismissal claim is not something you do lightly or without considerable expense, both finacially and emotionally.

I don't see why your line manager can't look at this fairly quickly for you. Doing that is not a huge inconvenience for you but threatening to go off sick is unprofessional and your attitude towards sickness and disciplinary is very worrying.

Having said all that, were you shown and given training on the new system at the same time as everyone else? So you had the same opportunity to request leave? Or because you're part time had everyone else been shown the new system and granted leave before you had been shown it?

Hope it all turns out to be a storm in a tea cup and quickly resolved.

They are not denying a summer break though. Many employers do just that, in those businesses which have their peak time in summer. But your employer is just restricting the number of people who can take time off simultaneously during peak busy times at weekends in the summer and you didn't get in quick enough.

If someone posted in AIBU claiming not being able to book holiday when they want was a human rights violation and warranted a constructive dismissal claim I'd be just as likely to think it was a wind up tbh.

Katie and flowery. Will you be getting a couple of weeks off in the summer to enjoy your family? Nuff said.

The computer booking system is quite straightforward. Looking for another job anyway!

Think Ill post in AIBU - AIBU to expect more than 5 days off in the summer? And not one weekend either!

Well I'm on permant holiday after accepting "redundancy" and you'll need to trust me when I say I know a thing or two about constructive dismissal. Fwiw when I was working I never had two weeks off in school holidays and I worked Christmas every two out of three years. We ran on small teams and I had to fit my holiday in like everyone else. Half terms were usually most difficult because there's just one week but as the manager you accommodate where you can and behave ethically.

I actually think you might be enjoying the drama of all this, hence your reluctance to be rational.

what line of work are you in? is it clinical?

I am outraged on your behalf!

I understand why you are upset. But it's not fair to start on people who are giving you advice. If you only want people who are going to agree with you then maybe you should post in another section but if you want prfessional HR opinon then you've had it.

Your jumping the gun a bit I would suggest firstly checking your holiday policy (one of mine once stated it was expected of us to gave a two week holiday!) then you need to go to your line manager and (calmly) explain that you have been unable to book any weekends off through the whole year. With new systems IRS easy for errors to occur. I would then look at if it is physically posible to take all if your leave with the slots that are left. If not again go back to your line manager.

"Katie and flowery. Will you be getting a couple of weeks off in the summer to enjoy your family? Nuff said."

What do you mean, "nuff said"? You are making an assumption but even if you were right how is that remotely relevant?

Most people do have a chunk of holiday in the summer. None of us has claimed otherwise. But just because most people get something doesn't mean it's a breach of your human rights that you don't get it as well.

There are thousands of businesses up and down the country who have their peak time in the summer and ban holiday completely during that time as a result. Do you really think there should be a law saying all businesses should ensure every single member of staff gets to take a chunk of time off during the summer? Seaside hotels? Tourist attractions?

If you'd posted saying that

a) your employer had imposed a blanket ban on holiday during the summer and
b) there was no business justification as peak time is winter, then I would have also been outraged on your behalf.

I still wouldn't have thought it worthy of a trip to Brussels or a constructive dismissal claim however if it were a change to terms and conditions I might have said you could fight it.

But a) there is no blanket ban. You just weren't quick enough booking your holiday, and
b) you confirm yourself that peak time is summer weekends.

It's very annoying, and especially so if you have children of school age. But you asked if it's illegal and the answer is no.

By all means go and check with an employment lawyer if you like, or for the human rights aspect go and have a chat with Amnesty and see if they will take time off from helping people imprisoned and tortured for their beliefs to help you with your holiday dilemma.

Sorry but your hysterical attitude is losing you a lot of sympathy points with me. And I wish you luck finding someone in AIBU who thinks this is a breach of your human rights.

ROFL at "for the human rights aspect go and have a chat with Amnesty and see if they will take time off from helping people imprisoned and tortured for their beliefs to help you with your holiday dilemma.". Quite.