Annual Leave not granted for ANY weekend in the year

[sneezecakesmum]

I am absolutely livid. We have started a new rota system at work which means I work every weekend plus 1 weekday. I am quite OK with this as it suits family.

We have an automated system for requests which grant or reject requests.

I have been told I must request according to my 'work pattern' When I do this weekends are auto rejected! as oversubscribed. I now have to ask nicely (and could be refused) for a weekend off or I am faced with never having more than 5 days off in a row and effectively never having a summer holiday.!!!

Can my employer effectively prevent me from taking a meaningful holiday break. I spoke to another employee yesterday and she hasnt got more than 5 days off consecutively all year!

I will contact my union tomorrow and have written to my team manager. Surely it is against my Human Rights as I am entitled to enjoy a 'family life'??

I think this would be classed as discriminatory against part time workers.As I understand it the emplyee is a weekend worker .If she cannot take weekends as holidays and she only works one other day in the week then it will be very difficult for her to take herholiday entitlement.So for example a worker whose hours are tues and wed would be able to take 4 days holiday ( two days a week over 2weeks )but a worker who workd sat and sun cannot because weekends are not available therefore it is discriminatory

It could possibly be indirect sex discrimination as well as most part-time/weekend workers are likely to be women and mon-fri workers be men. Obviously it depends on your specific area of employment/company make up but its a possibility. If you don't get anywhere asking nicely then talk to your union rep.

We don't know anywhere near enough to suggest it might be sex discrimination. Until the op answers the questions asked about training and confirms she wasn't given the same opportunities because she's part time or raises it in a professional way with her employer then she has no case based on the information provided.

Thats why I said possibly. Just something for her to consider if she has to.

I wasn't getting at you beaver I thought your post was reasonable some of the others on this thread are a bit dubious though

Sorry, thought you were.

Firstly 'training' was other staff telling me what to do, but it is very straightforward. It simply blocks me if I try to book a weekend. Not just Summer, my request in march has been rejected. Also May, September and November - in fact every request is denied.

It is a huge organisation so others should be able to cover weekends but their rota is for week days only - they wont work weekends and their rota says they dont have to - Catch 22.

It is not a case of being slow to request (I was very quick) but because weekends are busiest with low staffing levels there is a ban in place for weekend workers. irish it is not a case of no weekends left, it is a case of no weekends left for me (and others who work mainly weekends). If I worked mon-fri there would be no problem.

If murderers, rapists and terrorists can quote their Human Rights not to be deported to their country of origin, why cant I? Not really serious re Brussels. lol

I am not hysterical just outraged that I'll not get to see my family at the usual gatherings (mostly weekends)

mrswood You have hit the nail on the head and grasp the situation totally, I think it is discriminatory and this will be my argument. We are equal mixed sexes and others just as upset.

Sorry Katie re redundancy, it must be dreadful for you in the current climate, and I am glad at least I have got a job, so will probably have to bite the bullet, and grovel lots

Sorry Sneezecakes but you can not have cake AND eat it

'I am not hysterical just outraged that I'll not get to see my family at the usual gatherings (mostly weekends)'

You see you have a flexible working agreement for your children. You can not dip out because it doesn't suit your social life.

I have a bloody good idea what system you are refering to because my employer is about to go live with it too. I work flexibly and I am EXPECTING something very similar to happen with my own agreement.

I've had an agreement in place for 6 years and it comes with the territory. You should be grateful they allow you to work as they do and yes they will make it as difficult as possible for you to request weekends off.
If you want to work a flexible shift pattern then ask them to remove the work pattern on the e-rostering and work any shift.

Now we haven't gone live so apologies if I am wrong but can I clarify:

Are you complaining that you can't request a weekend off and work a week day instead?

OR

Is it that you can't have annual leave over a weekend?

Only my understanding of the system is that you can make requests BUT you can not request annual leave? The annual leave is put in by a manager and then the system takes you out of the picture for the dates that you have booked annual leave.

Thus no on the blank request page it will deny you a weekend off as that is your agreed working pattern but if you booked annual leave then the manager would load that (you wouldnt make a request) and then you wouldn't be given shifts.

But we haven't gone live yet so I may be wrong.

Day shift. To answer: Cant have annual leave over a weekend, simple as that. On our e rostering you can book annual leave, it is auto accepted or auto rejected - so far everything rejected!

It will be a stressful process now to see if my manager can contact them via email etc etc. The lumbering beaurocracy is part of the problem. They can still say no

I dont work weekends because I like them, it is the only way family committments can be covered. Its horrible working weekends routinely, if I had an alternative I would go for it, thats why I'm desperate to have AL weekends granted, but they are blocked. My manager may be able to help, but there is no guarantee he can do anything if there is a staffing shortfall.

When I agreed to the new rota, this was not pointed out to me, and I would look to opting out but I'VE SIGNED!!!

If you work for the same employer as me start looking for another job. My union gets more complaints about them than any other employer, says it all!

Weekends are the busiest, the most difficult to cover, and much more stressful than weekday working. Some working mums work weekends because that is the only way their children and family can be cared for. Its not great for family unity but has to be done. A few weeks a year I want to spend time with my family. Thats being denied to me unless I can negotiate time off and they are more reasonable - so far they have not been and I've cancelled an important week in march. If you can opt out Day I'd do it now there are hazards they dont tell you about!

I still don't get why you cannot go to mgmt, tell them you only work Sat, Sun, Mon, therefore your vacation needs to be taken on Sat, Suns and Mons and is it ok to have these X dates off (these dates being proportionately split betwene Sats/suns/Mons)?

Sounds like you are going OTT about an inflexible system, rather than addressing the underlying problem by simply talking to someone?????

So basically it is physically impossible for you to take your holidays?

Sorry but as I see it you work saturday, sunday and one week day

this would mean that you would have to take 20 weeks days off to actually use your holiday?

As you can't take a saturday or sunday as annual leave

I can't see that this would be fair and could be grounds for unfair dismissal

Allowed 49 days a year. If I took all those during the week, I could physically take my annual leave entitlement, and still never have a weekend off all year!!

Will certainly talk to management, but they wouldnt listen when I pointed out I was working all christmas and all new year even tho part time (3 days a week)!

I will talk to someone next week when they come back from their AL - time difficult to organise as I am only there one week day so always a bit of juggling act!

Phoning union re discrimination tomorrow so await their reply with interest but dont want to talk to management until I have some information re discrimatory treatment.

I have set days not because I like them but because I have to for childcare and it's a ball ache if I have a meeting at school come up but it's tough titty.

I've been doing hours and jobs I don't like for 6 years and I do them with a , I never get off early and I work my bloody socks of to prove it works.

So basically all you need to do is email a manager! If all you want is a few weekends off a year then whats the problem? it's a few emails.

The problem you might have though is that it will definately put yr head above parapet... you have a successful flexible working request and you are booking weekends off for a social life - I'm sorry but I think they will have a problem with that.

There was raised eyebrows last week when I swapped my set days around and comment was passed that I could work different days when it 'suited me'
(It was the hols still and I had childcare that day but not my 'normal' day)
It's not discrimination - they probably treat everyone like it!! It's also not discrimination because YOU chose to work the weekends and there is a procedure for annual leave.

And I can't opt out of e-rostering... nor would I bother - I am the ultimate arse licker because they pay my mortgage

Ivy sneezecakes hasn't been dismissed, and there is no indication that she will be, how is it unfair dismissal?

I agree with Squiffy. All that has happened is an automated system has not allowed her to book any weekends because the set limit of people allowed off at weekends at any one time has already been reached.

I agree with those that have said if there were literally a blanket rule no weekends, it would be virtually impossible for sneezecakes to actually take her full holiday entitlement, given what her working days are. But there is absolutely no indication that her employer would say 'tough, you just can't have holiday this year' if she explains to them the situation, and asks them to ensure she gets to take her holiday which I am pleased to see she is now going to do.

All this about unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal or human rights nonsense is just that- nonsense. The system isn't allowing her to book weekends, which in effect means she can't at present book her full holiday entitlement, so it needs to be sorted out in person.

op works in a business where the working week is 7 days

Flowery if your boss decided that you could never take a Wednesday off work as it was wasn't part of the automatic system so you could book the day after but never the Wednesday unless it was in person- and then you might not get the Wednesday, yet every other member of staff could just book their annual leave without this rigmarole - would you see that as fair to everyone and everyone being treated the same?

The system doesn't work as it will not allow her to book weekends, it needs to be sorted so that the system allows her to book her holidays, as other members of staff don't have this problem.

Doesn't sound like her boss has decided that. Sounds as though she can book weekends but because there is a limited number of people allowed off at one time, all the weekends she's tried to book are unavailable.

Yes the system might need amending to allow more people to have weekends off, or some more flexibility, but there is no indication that everyone else is finding it smooth sailing and is able to book whatever holiday they want, and there is no indication that sneezecakes boss won't sort it out when asked so that she can book holiday and ensure she doesn't lose her entitlement.

Even if they can't amend the system and sneezecakes and possibly others need to arrange her holiday in person rather than through the system I'm afraid I don't agree that a bit of extra 'rigmarole' constitutes any kind of dismissal or human rights breach.

do you work in the NHS??

can you not 'lose' one of your weekend days and work it in the week?

you get 49 days holiday a year, 49 ?! Have I read that right.

I asked if the rigramrole was fair or not fair? I never asked if it breech human rights, quite a difference

just to add that I dont think its fair at all.

Not necessarily fair that she has to go through some rigmarole, no. And no, you didn't mention human rights breach Ivy, that was the OP, but you did seem to think it constituted some kind of unfair dismissal.

She's not yet tried to resolve it, hopefully there will be no problems, but even if it is slightly more hassle for her (and possibly others) it's a gigantic overreaction to say that she is therefore dismissed and should be considering bringing a claim.

It is quite possible all this is just a system error...

An employment lawyer I know said about a direct sex discrimination claim "yes, it's not right and they've clearly behaved appallingly but is it sex discrimination or are they just utterly incompetent?" I thought that was interesting.

Fwiw I'd be the first to champion the rights of anyone who'd been discriminated against because of their part time status, taking maternity leave or any other direct or indirect discrimination. But the first question a lawyer or tribunal will ask is "what did you do to resolve it?". You must be seen to be reasonable.

Anyhoo, the op has said she will speak to line manager so let's see what happens before we get all excited

To make it really clear i italixes the could but you missed the could altogether and put I think it constituted some kind of unfair dismissal.

I did't say therfore she is dismissed and should be considering bring a claim - I never mentioned making a claim

I think you begrudge giving me an answer to the question of whether it is fair IMO.

I hope for OP it is a system error and booking annual leave can be made simple