Sacked this morning for gross misconduct. Any advice please??

[miniwedge]

Have worked for the company for 10 months.

I am party technical, partly sales.
My job involves spending 3 days a week visiting sites/prospective clients etc.
The meetings are logged on a google calendar which my bosses have access to.

I have had some issues with my company, I am contacted constantly on holiday, bollocked if I don't answer the phone on holiday, exceeded targets regularly but told I am not performing enough.
Too many issues to go into really but thought it might help to give a little background.

I was asked to attend a "sales meeting" this morning.
I arrived, was called straight in to see my two bosses (they own the company) and told I was being dismissed immediately for gross misconduct.
They alledge that on two occasions I have lied about my whereabouts and intimated that there are many more occasions I have lied.

They took my phone, laptop and car straight away.
They named two companies but didn't give dates when the offences were supposed to have taken place.

I have no opportunity to refute this because I have no access to emails/phone/dates etc.

I have exceeded my target this month, I am due £1100 in bonus on top of my salary.
They informed me that I don't deserve it and I'm not entitled to it. They said it is discretionary and are therefore only going to pay me a weeks salary on the 21st August.

PLease advise if there is anything I can do to at least get my bonus. This leaves me financially fucked.

oh god, poor you. They do sound like arseholes, as are many sales positions. Always moving the goalposts with regards to targets etc.

No real advice but just to say I am sorry and hopefully someone more in the know will be able to help

thank you. feel like shit right now.

Get to a solicitor pronto. See if you can get an appointment now.

You have less than 12 months service, and therefore can't claim unfair dismissal. Unless there are other issues such as discrimination which are not apparent from your post it does not therefore matter how little procedure or fairness there was.

What will however matter is you contract, what does that say about your bonus, is it discretionary or contractual, is it payable if you are not in employment, does it actually say anything in writing.

What does your contract say about notice? if they say gross misconduct they normally wouldn't pay notice, but if this isn't gross miscondcut you should argue for notice pay.

I would have thought you would have a right to know exactly what it is you are supposed to have done wrong. i.e dates etc so you can fight your corner so to speak.

Is your bonus structure in your contract? If so, you could take them to the small claims court for breach of contract.

Thank you, I have called the one I used a couple of years ago when I was offered compromise agreement instead of redundancy. (my lovely boss at the time worked out I could get more money than a straight redundancy if we did it that way)

I'm waiting for a call back now.

If the bonus is contractual (which is unusual) you can also go to the employment tribunal

ACAS are good too, they try and broach and agreement.

This happened to DH last Summer, it took a year to get to an employment tribunal and the other side settled 5 mins before it was due to start, he got £14k of the 19k they owed him.

It was very stressfull and fucked us up ££ for months, spendt 5k on solicitors. So do try the ACAS route.

PS: my DH was under 12 months.

Thanks all.

I've just got off the phone with the solicitor, I think I might love him a little bit.

I have no contract, I do have an offer letter which states the bonus.

Solicitor has said;

I would be awarded 3-4 wks for not having a contract.
A weeks notice for wrongful dismissal (although I'm under a year having no contract means I can claim this)
The bonus that I have earnt.

Above is a minimum. He has suggested calling the company on MOnday, stating I wish to appeal and asking for a copy of thier grievance procedure. Which they won't have as they don't have one.
Then saying look, you've not really behaved as you should, are you willing to discuss an arrangement to address this and go from there.

If they won't settle I'll then go to tribunal.

No advice miniwedge but wanted to say best of luck. There is employment law in this country, they can't just treat people like crap and get away with it. Glad your solicitor has been helpful.

thanks allarmbells.

Just spoken to ACAS who have said I can't do anything.

They are saying that because I was there under a year I am not entitled to be told that I am to attend a disciplinary.
Also they said that I have a verbal contract.....??
She also said that it made no difference that I can't defend any claims because I am being denied access to emails, diary etc and was nor provided with dates when these offences were supposed to have happened.

Bit confused now. Very upset but I think I'll take the solicitors advice in any case.

ok

if you have no contract you may be able to claim they failed there ... but your offer letter is also a contract. does it mention notice? if so what does it say?

if not then you would have a weeks notice under statute.

But... if there were gross misconduct then no notice is payable.

The bonus is going to be difficult if they say its discretionary and you can't prove otherwise. Was the bonus based on sales already made, eg like comission or was it calculated some other way? How do you know it was due. The more you can say the company always pays x% of sales made, or similar the better the chance is that you'll get the money.

As for the documents, you would eventually get them if you made a claim to the tribunal through disclosure, but its very difficult to get them otherwise if he company doesn't want to give them. You could try a subject access request through the data protection act but that's not always going to work.

At this stage I would follow your solicitors advise, see what happens and then think further about whether to claim. You have three months from today to do so (so 29 October) However if you have to pay solicitors fees (I don't know how your solicitor charges) it is highly unlikely to be worth it as your claim is difficult

Hate to say it but I was in a shitty position a few years ago and ACAS were useless. Snotty unhelpful, and rude. My solicitor negotiated a very good deal, despite ACAS's attitude. Stick with him/her.

Really feel for you..

The bonus is set out in my offer letter, the solicitor said this makes it contractual.
It specifically states, if your sales reach or exceed X in a calendar month you shall receive X bonus paid in the following months salary.

There is no notice stated.

The solicitor said that although I have an offer letter it can't be deemed to be a contract because it's missing aspects such as notice periods etc. It states it is an offer of employment.

I don't know if I have committed gross misconduct because I have not seen any disciplinary procedures/company rules and they refused to give dates/evidence this morning.
I asked if I could have my dismissal confirmed in writing and they said I would get my P45.

So they are not giving me an opportunity to appeal and I couldn't reasonably defend myself today.

Still feel like crap.

Thank you coolma, much appreciated. Woman I spoke to today basically said to suck it up. I don't want to though. I know I haven't done anything wrong but can't prove it.
I also found out they told all the other employees yesterday that they were sacking me.
So definitely had no intention of allowing defence or appeal.

Many thanks for coming back to this hildathebuildr, really appreciate your time.

I'll keep updating this thread as things happen.

It just all seesm so incredibly wrong! This is 2010 not 1950, surely you can't be treated like this!

mini the advice that you have been given by hilda and your solicitor is good. A phone call to state your case would be my first recommendation, it should also allow you to assess the company position.
I would be looking to follow this up with a letter, the CAB may be able to help you if the solicitor is too expensive.

Good to see that yet again ACAS are not supporting the employee.

also remember to check your household insurance - you might have paid for legal advice and cover as an extra - a lot of people do and then forget about it

Have you lied about any appointments?

One boss suggested I should leave after 11 months because apparently 'I wasn't happy'. He very kindly offered to pay me to the end of the month. The next day I went in and requested a meeting with the HR Manager. He told me it was pointless as I didn't have a leg to stand on as I had less than one year's service. I then told him that he was in breach of my contract and that it all needed to be discussed and agreed what was going to happen next. His face was a picture! I ended up getting 4 months money tax free out of them.

If you did lie about appointments, is it gross misconduct? I always thought it was stuff like stealing, punching a colleague, etc. If you are hitting your targets I would have thought this was a disciplinary issue in which case they would need to go through that process. It all sounds very fishy to me. How is the company doing? Are they struggling? If so, maybe they think they can bump you easily before your 12 months are up (and it's more difficult to get rid of you). If that's the case they probably think they can get away with it as surprisingly few people will put up any sort of fight.

I would pursue it. Lots of naughty employers out there who think they can get away with what they want.

I don't know how ACAS get away with it! I was in tears when I called them and they just made me feel 20 times worse! Useless bunch of tits!

fucking unbelievable! Have just opened this mornings post,

Dear Miniwedge,
please find enclosed your p45 in respect of your employment with XXXXX.

regards,

The Accountant

So no attempt to allow an appeal then......

And yes, ACAS attitude was very much geared towards the emploer yesterday.Pointless!

I am incredibly angry now at the way I have been treated.
I didn't lie about appointments, we have to fill in an online diary as appointments are made, however, sometimes an appointment wil change or is cancelled and the time filled with something else instead.
That would be detailed in my weekly sales reports. That I can't access because they took everything yesterday.

I have no way of defending myself, I don't even know what/when/where/how I am supposed to have committed gross misconduct.

Have been awaked since half five stresing.

Get back to your solicitor asap. They will help you somehow. I'm so sorry

ACAS dependent upon when you phone and who you get, I'm in similar situation. Have they now put in writing exactly why you're dismissed? Have they told you you can appeal and within what timeframe? Both these are important. Have discovered they don't have to follow certain policies but others important. Did they have an investigation?

Does anyone know what a COT 3 is and how you calculate it - I think its a kind of settlement agreement?

Its miserable, I had to collect my stuff yesterday, they had even itemised the Tampax!
I had to go when everyone else gone, one ffriend was still there. Its so weird.

I'm so sorry, they won't even allow an appeal? My union were hopeless and I resigned. Have you checked you have no legal cover included anywhere, like house insurance, etc?