Sacked this morning for gross misconduct. Any advice please??

[miniwedge]

Have worked for the company for 10 months.

I am party technical, partly sales.
My job involves spending 3 days a week visiting sites/prospective clients etc.
The meetings are logged on a google calendar which my bosses have access to.

I have had some issues with my company, I am contacted constantly on holiday, bollocked if I don't answer the phone on holiday, exceeded targets regularly but told I am not performing enough.
Too many issues to go into really but thought it might help to give a little background.

I was asked to attend a "sales meeting" this morning.
I arrived, was called straight in to see my two bosses (they own the company) and told I was being dismissed immediately for gross misconduct.
They alledge that on two occasions I have lied about my whereabouts and intimated that there are many more occasions I have lied.

They took my phone, laptop and car straight away.
They named two companies but didn't give dates when the offences were supposed to have taken place.

I have no opportunity to refute this because I have no access to emails/phone/dates etc.

I have exceeded my target this month, I am due £1100 in bonus on top of my salary.
They informed me that I don't deserve it and I'm not entitled to it. They said it is discretionary and are therefore only going to pay me a weeks salary on the 21st August.

PLease advise if there is anything I can do to at least get my bonus. This leaves me financially fucked.

If they have said you are guilty of gross misconduct but you aren't, couldn't you just get them for slander/libel?

praline a Cot 3 is a settlement agreement but brokered through acas, its much more enforceable than any other agreement but ACAS may or may not get involved. They will usually do a COT3 if you issue tribunal procedures.

Miniwedge If I were advisig you I would suggest you either write back to your ex employers (or get your solicitors to if you can afford them to so so) and acknowledge the P45 but ask for

1. A copy of both the disciplinary and appeal procedure as well as the grievance procedure (they may well not apply to you as you have less than 12 months service but if you don't ask you'll never know)

1. Explain that you want a copy of all the evidence on which they relied to dismiss you including details of the clients you allegedly lied about, as well as print outs or access to you work outlook system

1. Say you dispute their versions of events and you wish to appeal. (Again they may not let you but if you don't ask)

1. Say that if they do not provide the evidence so you know what you are accused of and can consider your position you may have to consider issuing proceedings for breach of contract (This may well only be for 1 weeks notice due to the fact notice is not referred to in your contract but at least they will have to think about this and take some advice themselves)

1. Set out what commission you are owed, how you've calculated this and when you expect to receive it. Again state that if this is not paid you may have to conisder issuing proceeding to recover these sums.

1. Consider making a data protection act request.

I am afraid I still doubt you will get much out of this, probably at best 1 weeks salary and your comission but if you are a pain to them you are more likely to get this than if you just roll over. It would be expensive to fight though so do look at the costs/benefits. Also if you push them and they will talk to you think about what you want as a reference - probably factual about what you did what targets you met etc. They won't say anything they don't believe to be true but again if you don't ask you won't get.

You won't get anywhere with slander, there is usually "qualified privilege" in these situations. Its very very hard to get past that especially if your ex employers believe (even wrongly) what they have said.

Good luck, but do bear in mind because you have less than 12 months service you are fighting an uphill battle here.

Thank again Hilda.
I'm going to take yours and the solicitors advice and telephone tomorrow then follow up with an email straight away.

I need to push this because the bonus alone is £1100, plus a weeks notice would give me enough cash to live for about two months, (ie pay essential bills + food).

I know I'm in a pickle regarding length of service but this is all so underhand.

They told my colleague the day before that they were sacking me and told him he would have my car with immediate effect. He drove me home yesterday full of the joys of spring.

He has not hit his targets once since May, Ive hit target every month bar May when I had no technician so could not physically sell any services.

The whole things stinks.

telling your colleague before you were scked is in itself gross misconduct according to any normal company policy! It's giving confidential information out about another employee - Outrageous behaviour!

We've dealt with ACAS twice: first time when DH was treated much as you have and they helped us get illegally witheld wages returned and were fab, second time when DH's employers 'lost details' of his planned paternity leave and tried to tell him he couldn't have any even though he had a letter from them confoirming receipt (they'd accidentally given someone else my due date off)- on that occasion they basically told him he was lucky to have a job at all these days, go away and put up with it.

We got teh apternity elave by researching it all ourselves (and they backed down in one phone call to HR)

Go with the solicitor; companies know what legal framewwork they have to work within and should damned well comply.

I'm not covered by my home insurance, just checked with them.

Solicitor said to call back anyway but theres no way I can afford him at £250 an hr.
I'll have to give it a go on my own.
Really really feel like crap this morning.

Keep fighting miniwedge.

They have done awful things (not given you chance to state your case, kept commission etc) but if they have sacked you and retained your colleage, when you have hit targets and your colleague has missed them, they had better have a damn good reason for sacking you. And the fact that they won't tell you what it is suggests that they don't have a good reason. Keep at 'em!

If sol said call back anyway, perhaps he'll give you a free call? Worth asking anyway.

What happened to the sales person before you? . Sounds like they do this sort of thing all the time

There was no sales person before me for this part of the business, it was a new venture for them which I have made successful.
There was a technician they sacked with no notice and again gave no reason.

They do however have a history of new ventures, then getting rid of the sales person/people and merging it in to their core busines. Hs happened three or four times now.
Each time just before the 12 months is up. I don't think that will help in my case though, being under 12 months I don't get to go down the unfair dismissal route so cn't discuss the history I don't think.

Received a second letter in todays post.

Dear miniwedge,
following our meeting at xxx today I am writing to confirm we have terminated your employment with xxxxx as of today.
This is due to the fact that we were misled on more than one occasion as to your whereabouts during working hours.
This we consider to be gross misconduct and is the reason for your dismissal.
We appreciate your cooperation and wish you well for the future.
regards

Bastard ex-employer.

So no mention of appeal or when I will be paid if at all.

If you aren't covered by your insurance I would recommend that you phone your solicitor back anyway (we're often quite nice really even if we do have to make some money ourselves hence the charges) - see if he has anything else to say.

write the letter/email yourself (as above) to push for your commission/unpaid salary/weeks notice. Also are you owed any holiday - you should be paid pro-rata for any you have not taken. I am sure your exemployer know what they are doing if they regularly fire people just before 12 months is up, but you should still get moneys already earned and you may need to push for this, and be enough of a pain they decide its easier to pay you than not to pay you. The moneys a lot to you, but if they have to fight you and they are using lawyers they will be paying similar amounts - so after 4-6 hours they will be better off just paying you. Many companies do just this kind of calculation when deciding how to proceed.

Unfortunately I also would advise that you start looking for another job as you aren't going to get this one back however unfair it is.

Have just made the call.

Am having a bit of a sob now.

They are saying they will not be paying me any further money at all.
In the meeting they said they would pay me on the 2st August to the end of the month,they are now saying that when I got paid on 21st July that was my last pay day as it covered 1st July to 30th July.
I am fucked. I can't pay my bills.

I kept it very amicable, I said that I would like them to consider that my bonus is contractual not discretionary as it is set out in my offer letter.
I also asked them to consider that as I did not have a contract which set out terms of notice and disciplinary procedures that I should receive a minimum 1 week notice but arguably I should receive 1 month as that is what every other employee gets.
I also mentioned that as my offer letter aid I would receive healthcare after 6 months and I didn't receive that benefit I could argue for breach of contract and would like them to consider a form of recompense or their error.

Boss basically said, you can appeal if you want but we don't owe you anything, we'll take advice and call you back.
He then said, if we are legally obliged to pay you somethjing we will but we won't if you can't make us.

So, am sat here in the shit because I have no job. no money, no savings as I have used those when dp and I were both made redundant at the same time just over a year ago.
The twelve month rule sucks. I've been treated like crap, undeservedly mugged off and now I can't support my family properly.

Thanks Hilda, have redone my cv over the weekend and sent it out/mde a few calls already.
Spoke to solicitor first, he aid the best he can do is £100 for half an hour and he will make a call to put pressure on them for me. I haven't got £100 to spend.

My boss has had the fucking cheek to call back and ask advice on one of my clients!
Hve told him I can't discuss their clients as I have no information available to me.

miniwedge, have a most unlike MN hug - you've been treated extremely badly and it's even more shocking to hear they have a habit of behaving in this manner and sacking folk before the 12 month deadline. How dare he ring and ask your advice this morning

miniwedge So sorry this has happened. Am just posting really to say I know how horrible it is as something similar happened to DH all because of the stupid 12 month rule. Companies can get away with murder because of this.

Do you know anyone who knows a solicitor who might do this as a favour for you? If not and you really can't afford it, how about contacting the work/money sections of the Guardian or one of the other broadsheets and asking them if they're interested in following up how badly people like you can be treated when they have less than 12 months with a company? Maybe the threat of some bad publicity would make your old bosses think a bit. Or a local paper if it's a local company?

Also, I would be tempted to contact your old clients, if you still have their details or could find them online, and tell them how the company have treated you. They might think again before giving them more business. You'd have to do this quickly though before the company put their 'side' of the story.

Again, very sorry for your situation and you'e right, it is totally unfair. Hope something turns up.

Oh please don't contact old clients. This would definitely be in breach of contract.

You need to appeal the decision to sack you for gross misconduct as hilda has outlined, also saying that you were not given actual specifics, so you didn't have an opportunity to give a defence.

Keep in mind that they will be sending your letter to a solicitor/employment advisor, so ensure that you explain things from the stance that they would already know.

You need to give them a date to have your appeal. Think it's within 28 days? Can't remember off the top of my head, but google: ACAs Code of Practice for the obligations an employer has re: deadlines and procedural matters.

please don't contact clients it would be breach of contract and would make a bad situation worse.

write the letter as I outlined, appeal but more importantly set out n what you believe you are owed and why. Tell them they have xx days to pay you otherwise you will issue proceedings in the employment tribunal. Explain you are entitled to notice as there was no gross misconduct and tell them you are entitled to a month as this term is the clear custom and practice as that's what all employees have and as such would be implied. Claim holiday pay and commission and detail what you are owed - if you don't have precise details set out what you believe and what else you'd need to know precise details.

Appeal is within reasonable time but again there's no penalty on them if they don't follow procedure (12 months messing you up again)

If you can't afford a solicitor you can try the cab who can be good, or if you represent yourself the employment tribunals put the forms and procedures on line. Also try something called the free representation group (pro bono barristers) If you are sensible and organised it is possible to represent yourself in the tribunal. The tribunals are used to unrepresented claimants and will cut you some slack with the rules if you get to a hearing. You sound like you'd be able to do this for yourself but it will take time. (probably 3-6 months if they don't pay up) So after you've written the first letter look at you immediate outgoings, savings and plan what you might do next.

good luck my thoughts are with you

unfortunately you probably don't get 1 months notice, one week is much much more likely if this did go to tribunal... But again if you don't ask, and its not impossible for you to get 1 month. If they offer the week however do take it

OMG!!!!

Right, my ex-boss has just called me back. He has offered me;

1. my bonus in full
2. A weeks notice in lieu of the healthcare benefit that was stated in my offer letter.

He said they will pay this on the understanding that I sign a letter agreeing to drop any proceedings against them and agree that the matter is closed.

Looks like his solicitor has told him they have to pay me something.
I think I am going to accept this, I just need enough money to survive until I am working again. I have a feeling I could maybe ask for a bit more, he was very conciliatory and wanted me to agree there and then to drop the matter but I don't particularly want to draw this out.

I can't thank you lot enough, particularly hildathebuilder
I am so grateful for the advice and support you have all given, without it I would not be getting any cash at all.

Onwrds and upwards! Thank you!!

good resolution miniwedge, well done, and hope you have a new, better job very soon.

I'm so pleased for you (and glad you found my posts of assistance)

Wait until they send the paperwork through then see what they say in writing but I probably would suggest you take it.

However they may well be willing to make the notice free of tax (you can get up to £30,000 tax free as compensation for loss os employment) as you didn't have a notice clause in your offer letter they should be able to do this.

Ask about an agreed reference - it should be no skin off their nose to agree something with you - as I said before keep it factual. Ask them to put in your dates of employment, what you did for them (something like a job description) and soemthing about you meeting sales targets, anything about the technical side of the job. Avoid anything which says why you left or which implies that they think you were wonderful - they'll never agree to that.

If they want this to be binding they may ask you to sign a compromise agreement. If they do they should agree to meet all your solicitors fees.

Take care and good luck in finding a better job

RESULT. Though I would be tempted to negotiate an agreed reference as well.

Fantastic news miniwedge, well done!!!

Excellent news.

I would get him to offer that in writing but still hum and ha a bit because you didn't have a written statements of employment which you would have been entitled to, so you would theoretically have a case at tribunal.

Definitely get an agreed reference. If they won't give you that then say you'll go to a tribunal.

Am pleased they have at least offered you the bonus. What shits. It all sounds very dodgy. I hope you find a new job soon with employers who value you.