Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · Today 15:56

Excellent post, FlirtsWithRhinos (today 14:01)

It is, it explains so much. Thank you FWR.

I have come to the conclusion if you can't respect women, our rights and our voices and words you are a misogynistic woman hater. No debate.

I cannot disagree, Boiledbeetle.

I for one see no reason at all why I should respect biologically male people who don’t respect me, or biologically female people in general.

Well said.

So 'Isla' the Scottish double rapist is confined in a women's prison.

What risk assessment have they carried out then, Robin? The only one I suspect they have done is 'Will poor Isla be in danger locked up with the men?' I doubt any thought whatsoever was given to the women who now have to deal with him.

Beyond disgusting, beyond anything a civilised country should be doing.

Those poor, poor women.

Everything Roaring says is spot on. It is so so disrespectful.. Be kind and respect only works if it's reciprocal.

Where's the be kind in this current movement towards women?

Rather we get we are mad, terfs, shrill, hysterical. We are told we should be not allowed in politics, threatened on the floor of parliament, told to accept men into women's spaces and prisons and sports.

How is that kind to women? How is that respectful?.

And I'm expected to bow down to the pronoun and the loss of ability to describe myself, the workings of my body, the sex I was concieved as gestated as born as grew up as live as will die as and will still be identifiable as in 10 000 years time when they dig up my remains.

No.

Fuck off

No debate

Yes, I wonder what possible ‘risk assessment’ could look at a man that has just been convicted of two counts of rape and decide he is safe to be put in a womens prison.

There are a few male born trans people with a history of violence and/or sexual offences in Cornton Vale now I think.

It’s not like most rapists don’t generally have a pattern of similar behaviour and we know that sexual offences have the highest reoffending rate.

Unless they are not ‘risk assessing’ for likelihood to rape again or the safety of the women but something else? I know there are rumours circulating that the risk assessments only look at the risks to the trans person but Keep Prisons Single Sex have said that’s not true but you do start to wonder.

I just don’t know how much more my heart can be broken by all this.

Rapists in women’s prisons. RAPISTS IN WOMEN’S PRISONS.

And I just watched an old video of “June Eastwood” winning the women’s mile race by a considerable margin while clearly not even trying. Young women trying to compete just being literally left behind. How demoralising must that be for them? How do you find the motivation to keep doing what you need to do to compete at that level when you know a male person can just come on and steal it out from under you?

All I can see is a big, cheating man. And yet other people (including fucking Seb Coe) watch it and see a deserving, talented woman. Apparently.

It’s all heartbreaking. I just don’t know what it’s going to take for this spell to break.

And back to RAPISTS IN WOMEN’S PRISONS.

You’d think that would be enough; but it isn’t. Nothing seems to be enough. No amount of woman hate, of harm to women and girls is enough to count, to tip the scales in our favour.

We definitely get the Olympic gold in not mattering.

This^^

There's is no reciprocity. All one way.

I'm not debating any more. Sex matters and a man is a man is a man.

The discussion was much broader than just the GRR Bill and it's impects and strayed much more broadly into the wider discussion around into single sex spaces, womens' fears around predatory men etc.

Andrew Doyle and Sarah stated multiple times that the issue is not about Trans people but about predatory males and how they will exploit loopholes. Sarah pointed out that by making it easier in any way, you risk making it easier for any men, not just easier for trans people.

AD asked twice earlier in the interview, "how do you validate self ID, if there's no way to measure it?" You didn't answer directly.

AD says something like, "you say that the fear women feel is an irrelevance, but there have been cases, haven't there, where the notion of Self ID has been exploited to commit violence against women, hasn't there?"

You then repeat womens' fears are an irrelevance. And that if we allow women to voice their concerns about self ID we risk losing sight of the real issues of male VAWG. (I believe these are all part of the same discussion tbh)

THEN

You say something like "Akua postulated a scenario where a predatory male presents as female to access a female space. OK <sceptical face> but we have 350 million people living under Self ID rules and I'm not aware of cases like that..."

If you are not aware of any cases in any self ID country where a predatory male has presented as female to access female spaces, I am very very sure examples can be found.

(I'm no audio typist so this may not be accurate and please do feel free to pick holes or correct.)

However, I would say that throughout you played down the idea that womens' fears should be given any credence, and you definitely gave the impression that the reason you support self ID is because you see no reason to consider that it has risks for women and girls, because as far as you know there's no evidence to suggest it does. You defended, quite vigorously, the way the PS carry out their risk assessments and deal with trans prisoners. You stated they are best placed to make decisions on this. And the end results of those decisions are people like Karen White, Jessica Winfield, Sally Dixon, Katie Dolatowski and today's lovely Isla. ARE you happy with all those decisions? Do you not have concerns about the women involved in these jails? Because just because you are trans, there is absolutely no requirement for you to support those convicted sex offenders being facilitated to further commit sexual assaults?

Women are saying to you that convicted sex offenders being housed in women's prisons is a problem. Our fears are not irrelevant. We are not interested in the niche legal details and pedentary as to how and why it happens because we want genuine single sex spaces, and an end to legal fictions like GRCs that allow this and absolutely no self ID.

Yes, I wonder what possible ‘risk assessment’ could look at a man that has just been convicted of two counts of rape and decide he is safe to be put in a womens prison.

Now come on Look at him, I mean her.

Here is a man who claims to be a woman and is obviously so hating of his male body he can't bear to be male any longer. Of course he should go into the female prison estate. Of course he's not doing this to take advantage of bad law and relishing the further chance to sexually abuse and intimidate women. That never happens.

Oh no hang on what's I see.

Yeah really a man that hates manhood and just has to be a woman.

All the women I know always have this problem, that's why they only wear leggings with longer tops. Nothing to do with hiding expanding waistlines. It's because we prefer to hide the outline of our penises.

And the activists wonder why women have had enough.

Being a woman is not something you get to choose, or put on like an outfit. You only get to be a woman if you are born female and managed to survive childhood.

And because Isla above has just as much right as a man with genuine gender dsyphoria to claim womanhood I'm afraid I can longer support any man who decides to force me to pretend in his delusion he is a woman.

A man can never be a woman. And no amount of laws forcing me to capitulate to the lie that a man can be a woman will ever ever change what I know to be fact.

no debate.

This is a very good post!

The way I look at it, if a burglar comes into my house, steals my possessions and trashes the place, I'm not going to sit him down with a nice cup of tea and a biscuit. For some reason, women are still being expected to make tea and biscuits and the burglars get quite stroppy when we don't.

The way I look at it, if a burglar comes into my house, steals my possessions and trashes the place, I'm not going to sit him down with a nice cup of tea and a biscuit. For some reason, women are still being expected to make tea and biscuits and the burglars get quite stroppy when we don't.

And if we lock our doors and windows against potential burglars, we're told we are being bigoted and defaming all men.

This. All the live long day.

All the women I know always have this problem, that's why they only wear leggings with longer tops. Nothing to do with hiding expanding waistlines. It's because we prefer to hide the outline of our penises.

😂😂

thank you beetle for making me laugh even though this isn’t remotely funny

For some reason, women are still being expected to make tea and biscuits and the burglars get quite stroppy when we don't.

Odd, isn’t it. Almost like there’s one class of humans that’s fundamentally less important than the other class of humans; one class that’s effectively only seen as service humans, not full humans in our own right like the other class.

You say something like "Akua postulated a scenario where a predatory male presents as female to access a female space. Ok but we have 350 million people living under Self ID rules and I'm not aware of cases like that..."

I’m sure a good lawyer would spot the obvious logic fail above. Isn’t the saying ‘absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence’?

We know that some (probably all) of these countries are not gathering that data. Maybe some started gathering it and realised how bad it was and hurriedly made it go away.

Male crimes such as the example given above are recorded as committed by a female so it disappears’ into general female statistics. The only clues are have are those where the ‘female’ sexual offending rate has suddenly increased significantly like it has in Norway.

We have countless specific examples in this country and others but they are all dismissed as anecdote because there are no national statistics on it.

Can anyone think why a country would make as fundamental a change to law and society as to change the category of sex from biological to ‘legal’ and effectively remove all single sex spaces but not track any data as to the impact on that society?

What are they trying to hide??

And if we lock our doors and windows against potential burglars, we're told we are being bigoted and defaming all men.

We’re bigoted just for noticing that we’ve been burgled. Bloody women and their mad delusional expectations of wanting not to be burgled in the first place.

And the burglar's just decided that it's actually his house and it was all along. He'd quite like us to stay in the house to serve him but if we object, we're hateful and don't deserve to live in a house and can go and camp out in the garden.

You would, of course, wish to make plain what the result of those complaints were?

It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so true

In the interests of balance, a picture of rapist “Isla” without the wig:

twitter.com/darcey_mason/status/1617907179822153731

It’s a paradox for me. Through my working life I have tried to treat everyone properly, equally and fairly, no matter what their protected characteristic.

But the worst of you here treat trans people just as you would complain about men treating women historically.

A little bit of self-reflection and self-awareness goes a long way.

But I’m sure you will just keep stirring your cauldrons.

’Bye for now.